How to Sell Podcast: Make How You Sell, Why You Win

Tom Stanford [00:00:00]:
And so there's an element, a dimension to influence that you need to add to your repertoire, if you will, is the ability to create receptivity, which is not about selling.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:00:11]:
Welcome back to another episode of the how to sell podcast. Thanks for joining us for what will be another incredible episode this week. For our long time listeners, thank you for showing up. We really appreciate you. We're grateful that you show up. And to our new listeners, if this is the first time, thank you for showing up. We hope this content resonates with you. We hope this content inspires you to be the very best sales professional you can be.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:00:33]:
Now this week, you know, we've got somebody that's that's been in the enablement, in the training game for a long time, Tom Stanfield. He's the author of unreceptive, and he's the co founder of Aslan Training, and they've been around a long, long time. He's been doing this for nearly 30 years. And he's gonna talk a bit about his book, and he's gonna talk a bit about the concepts of what sellers need to do to differentiate themselves in a competitive market. So this is a great episode. We've got a very experienced person who's gonna share incredible insights from their decades of experience in this space. But before we jump into this episode, and you will notice in the coming weeks, there's gonna be a little bit of a format change with our podcast. Yeah.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:01:09]:
We've gotta make a few changes. Right? Again, we've got a couple of killer guests. So thanks so much for your support to date. This interview is gonna be great. It's gonna help you think a little bit differently about the way you approach your sales game, and we hope this leads you just one step closer to being the very best sales professional you can be. Welcome to the show, Tom. Well, thank you, Luigi. Appreciate you having me on the show.

Tom Stanford [00:01:33]:
I was excited excited to meet you, be on the show. I heard a lot about you guys.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:01:36]:
Yeah. Thanks, mate. And we're really, really excited to talk about the barriers that are stopping sellers, especially as we see you know, I saw some interesting data recently that approximately 24% of sales teams are hitting targets. So there's a lot of sellers that are obviously, a lot of barriers that are preventing sales people right now, so I'm keen to dive deep into this discussion. But before we we jump into this discussion, we'd love to know a bit more about you, Tom, and and and how you started in this world of of selling.

Tom Stanford [00:02:10]:
Well, I I started in selling while I was actually in college. I got married in college. I had 2 kids before I graduated college. So I had to sell to to eat. And actually, I've been a 100% commission sales in some form or fashion And then when I got out of college, I was a 100% commission sales rep. And then when I got out of college, I was a 100% commission sales rep, and I really have been in that role, some form or fashion in that role since then. So love selling, love the opportunity to serve customers and help them solve problems and control my time, control my income. It's it's the greatest profession.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:02:56]:
And I love it, isn't it? I love I love it when I I talk to somebody like yourself who's just passionate. They love it. They love the thrill of the commission chase. You know? I've always been been commission only for such a long time, and it's it's such a thrill, right, to be able to acquire an opportunity and make your own money. And Yeah. And that's you know, it's it's the thrill of the chase. So I absolutely love that that description. And you you're now the cofounder.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:03:22]:
You run a business that essentially helps organisations help their sales teams live a lot.

Tom Stanford [00:03:29]:
Yeah. Exactly.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:03:30]:
From a skilled perspective. And would love to know, though, you read a book, unreceptive. What was motivating what motivated you to write a book?

Tom Stanford [00:03:38]:
Well, we we learned that the the genesis of the company that we started called Aslan Training was born out of this need to figure out how to get how to be successful in the toughest environment possible, which is cold calling.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:03:53]:
Yeah.

Tom Stanford [00:03:54]:
I had started, so I became so successful in sales that I started a company to basically generate leads and appointments for other sales people. And so they were companies like Hewlett Packard and a lot of well known companies were paying us to say, Hey, our sales reps struggled to get meetings and get through the door and prospect. And you know a lot about prospect. I know that's something you're really passionate about and good at. And so we were doing that for them, and we were training our reps on a very different way to get meetings. And what we realized early on, and what was working for us, is realized that customers aren't rejecting a solution or a product or service. They're rejecting a sales call. So the harder you try to sell, the more resistant they became.

Tom Stanford [00:04:40]:
And so this was a So we started developing a brand new or different way to to prospect and to sell. And we started we basically developed our own trading program. And a company, it was Blue Cross Blue Shield, wanted to vet our service and said, hey. Before we outsource prospecting and lead gen to you, you know, we basically were an SDR, BDR, outsource company. Let's see your training. So he's like, sure. I mean, it was posters and I mean, it was very archaic. But Yeah.

Tom Stanford [00:05:12]:
And and so they came and looked at our sales training program, and they were like, this is amazing. Will you come train our field sales force? And we're like, oh, okay. We had no clue, you know, anything about the training world. But that was the Fastuca clue that we were doing something different. I eventually sold that company and started a sales training firm. And this is in the nineties. And so we've been doing it ever since. And so the the the genesis of the book was really, it's getting more and more like you said at the beginning, it's getting so difficult for people to be successful.

Tom Stanford [00:05:41]:
I wanted to make our unique methodology public. And really it's all about this idea that every time you make a call, if you're trying to get a meeting, or you're trying to persuade people, they're either open or they're closed. Like the door is open. Come on in, I want to talk to you. Or the subject's open. Yes, I'd like to hear why I should change products or buy your service or listen to you. And the problem is is when someone's closed, which most people are closed now, which you're you're I think the data's supporting that. When people are closed, the more you try to sell them the more closed they become.

Tom Stanford [00:06:14]:
Yeah. So if you sell, you lose. If you don't sell, you lose. And so the book is all about changing the way people think about converting this rapidly growing number of unreceptive prospects and customers. Because the traditional approach does not work. It actually backfires.

David Fastuca [00:06:32]:
Just a quick interruption to let you know about a free resource that Luigi and I wanna hand over to you. This resource has helped lift close won rates to over 73% on average. Plus, you'll get our b to b sales newsletter that drops weekly where you can learn what it takes to build a repeatable sales process and creating a pipeline full of qualified deals. To get this resource, just go to Growth Forum dot i0forward/newsletter Forum click the link in this episode and sign up today.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:07:05]:
I've got my own hypothesis on why Yeah. Our buyers have become unreceptive. Yeah? Mhmm. But would love to hear your view on this. Like, what's why do

Tom Stanford [00:07:16]:
you think

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:07:16]:
buyers are now you know, they've got that barrier. There is there is a trust gap. There's so many sales training companies. There's so many great training products. There's so many you know, companies spend 1,000,000,000 of dollars per annum trying to upscale their sales Forum. Yeah. But yet the barrier with the buyer is still there is still a massive trust gap.

Tom Stanford [00:07:35]:
Well, I think the trust gap has always existed, but the customer didn't feel like they had a choice.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:07:41]:
Okay.

Tom Stanford [00:07:42]:
Right. So now with the amount of information available to the customer, I don't need you. Mack Mackenzie did a study recently that measured customers' willingness to talk to a sales rep when they're evaluating a solution. So this isn't, this isn't early. This is like I'm I'm evaluating a solution. And the question is and this is a b to b this is a B2B question, instead of, you know, B2B world. They David, what per, so what they ask, what percentage of customers want to talk to a seller? It has declined a 120% in the last 3 years. And I think a lot of that's just information.

Tom Stanford [00:08:17]:
It's like, look, I don't need you. I don't need you to tell me what I already can find out on on Google. And and the amount of information we receive on a daily basis is overwhelming, people just do not need another sales rep. I mean, think about it. When you get on LinkedIn, like, I'm an owner of a company like you. Yeah. So I get hit every day by 5 or 6 people on LinkedIn who wanna connect with me to sell me something. Then I got 100 and something emails.

Tom Stanford [00:08:43]:
Now phones stopped. Mail slowed down, but I'm and I've got text coming in. I've got email coming in. I've got media. I mean, it's just people are just like, I I just can't handle it anymore. So we're not evaluating. We're we're working. We're we wanna be in control of of the information we get.

Tom Stanford [00:08:58]:
So I think one more sales call's killing me. And also there's a there's a disconnect between the, the people are isolated. You know, people don't walk into buildings anymore. And people don't talk on the phone. So it's it's we have a with technology, it used to be you had to answer your phone. No one answers their phone anymore.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:09:21]:
And it's interesting you say that right because I can absolutely I absolutely concur with this that because I see it. I'm on the receiving end as well. I've actually got a folder in my inbox

Tom Stanford [00:09:31]:
Oh, really?

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:09:32]:
Of all the emails that I receive that are just feature focused. Yeah. They're selling. They're pitching because they're great examples that are used in training, right, to say, like, guys, this is this is what's happening in the inbox of your buyers. How do you actually stand out? So let let's talk about that. If that's a barrier right now, if the barrier that sellers are actually faced with is their their prospects, their buyers are just overwhelmed with information.

Tom Stanford [00:10:00]:
Right.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:10:01]:
They're now not just having that one barrier, but they're kind of resisting sellers talking to them. Yeah. What's a strategy that salespeople can use today that will reduce that resistance?

Tom Stanford [00:10:16]:
Well, the easy answer is don't act like a salesperson. It's like and it's funny. I mean, the solution to the problem is very counterintuitive. Yeah. So one of the 2 the first thing sellers need to do is change their mindset. And this is gonna sound like, okay. Whatever. But this is critical.

Tom Stanford [00:10:36]:
It's really critical. The first thing, and the bigger the first barrier is their perception of you. The first receptivity barrier we have to change is their perception of us. And the way to do that is to first, we need to really decide, and this is a keyword, decide, who is the hero of the story. Because our motive is ultimately transparent. If we're listening so that we can try to make a point. If we're listening so we can sell something. If we're reaching out on LinkedIn because we ultimately don't care about what they need, we're just trying to sell our product and service, that's all going to be revealed.

Tom Stanford [00:11:07]:
Our motive is ultimately transparent. So we've got to start by making a decision to put the customers first. We really have only 2 options. We either calling people to come up with the ultimate solution to their problem, or we're calling them to sell something. And when we when we're calling them to sell something, or we have commission breath. And our breath smells. We They can smell it. And so it really starts with the decision on every call to make, to decide who is first.

Tom Stanford [00:11:34]:
And that sounds, again, so cliche and so, but it's, it is a game changer. And so that's a basic thing that we try to remind people. But there's a very, also very tactical thing that sellers do, is we want to control. And we want we want to try to put pressure on the customer because we're afraid they're gonna leave. And we've worked so hard to get there that we put pressure on them. Whether whether it's perceived pressure or it's actual pressure. And so one of the things that we teach in the, teach in our program or and we talk about in the book is we have to drop the rope. There's a perceived tug of war that happens every time I'm in a conversation because my title says sales rep.

Tom Stanford [00:12:14]:
And they think you wanna sell something, you wanna win, you wanna earn a commission. And so there's this natural tendency to pull back and resist this this pressure. And so what we teach sales reps is they need to drop the rope. They need to communicate, Hey, I don't really know, especially if it's early in the process. I don't really know if what what I sell is something you need.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:12:36]:
Yeah. You

Tom Stanford [00:12:37]:
know, it's saying things like, well, you seem like you're happy with or you're doing this. Why would you talk to us if this already works for you? Or if you're currently working with so and so. Or maybe you don't need to spend. You know, why is yours so expensive? Well, you know, we are more expensive. We're one of Our solution costs more money. My goal today is determine if you should even pay more. You may not need to. Yeah.

Tom Stanford [00:13:00]:
And so it's it's creating this it's removing tension which makes you sound like just makes you sound different than every other sales rep. So those are a couple of key fundamental things that actually drive everything that you do through the process.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:13:14]:
Okay. So, I mean, look. I I I'm I'm I really love this. Right? So the first thing we've gotta do if we wanna if we wanna remove or reduce that resistance is we've gotta first change the way we look at our customers and our prospects. Mhmm. Really be transparent in the way in which we get engaged with them. I love the term make the, you know, make the customer, make the prospect the absolute hero. Yeah.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:13:39]:
And then reduced attention, just dropped the rope by saying, hey. You know, I'm not here to sell anything because at this point, I don't know if there's a need or if there's a use case for us to even be guiding this conversation forward. Right? So I love that. Talk to us about the next barrier. Like, what's another key barrier sellers need to remove to make this journey easy for both the buyer and the seller?

Tom Stanford [00:14:04]:
I think I think probably the one of the most impactful things that I talk about in the book is how to position a meeting. But it's also how to position your solution during the meeting. So there's a model that we teach, and there's, there's 3 elements to it. It's captivate, elevate, and separate. So it's sort of the 3 elements of positioning, let's just sales, getting a meeting. Like, if you want a meeting with somebody, the first thing you need is an invitation. Yeah. Until someone sales, or maybe a better way to say this, if you want to influence somebody, before you ever can influence, you they have to extend an invitation that says, what do you think about fill in the blank? Until they actually either say it to themselves or say it to you, what do you think about what you say doesn't matter? So you've gotta get an invitation.

Tom Stanford [00:15:00]:
And the one of the the best ways to get an invitation is how you position the meeting. And so there's 3 elements to position the meeting. The first one is you wanna capture their attention by focusing on not your solution, but what's on their whiteboard. Yeah. If you lead with what's on their whiteboard just so you think about everybody you're gonna talk to has a whiteboard, whether it's metaphorical or it actually has a whiteboard. Like, I have things on my whiteboard right now. I look at it. Yeah.

Tom Stanford [00:15:23]:
There's 3 things I'm working on right now that are on my whiteboard. It's on the left hand side. If you say anything that's related to those three things, I will listen to you. Yeah. It's like if I show you a picture, like how I was playing golf in in Ireland last week. And the guy that went on the trip you know, I would send out pictures that I took during the day. And the guy that was on the trip with me was next to me while he was looking at the pictures. And so what does he do? He pulls that picture up, and he blows it up to see who? Me or him? He blows it up to see himself.

Tom Stanford [00:15:50]:
We all do the same thing. We will look at a picture every time if we are in the picture. They don't care about a picture of us. And so, to get somebody's attention, to capture their attention, you lead with what's on their whiteboard. You talk about them. And and if somebody's thinking, well, how do I know that? Well, if you are in a certain market, you should be able to guess.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:16:13]:
Actually, I wanna hone in on that, right, because I see that information gap a lot where buyers are reaching out to a seller Mhmm. Yet they don't know the persona. Let's talk about them in the technical frame, the persona. They don't know the buying profiles, objectives. They don't know what's top of mind. And there was a study that was done by VanillaSoft, and, the actual study showed that 2,000 senior decision makers, 89% of them said, if you reach out to me, we expect you to know me, know my industry, and know my problems. Right?

Tom Stanford [00:16:52]:
Basic. So

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:16:54]:
there's the expectation that buyers absolutely expect this today, yet so many sellers don't understand exactly what is, you know, what are the commercial conversations

Tom Stanford [00:17:05]:
Right.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:17:05]:
They are having with their teams. Right?

Tom Stanford [00:17:08]:
It's because this goes back to the first point that I was making is who's if the customer isn't the hero of the story, you don't know anything about them. If they are the hero of the story, then you study them. I mean, if you serve a VP of manufacturing, there's 5 problems that all VPs of manufacturing face. And you can pick 1 of the 5. If you serve the technology space, there's 5 things the technology leaders all. And so if you get to know the customers, and every time you meet with them, you ask them what do they care about, what's on their whiteboard, very quickly you'll mindset you'll start to see the same trends. Like I serve VPs of sales and I serve VPs of learning. They all say pretty much the same thing.

Tom Stanford [00:17:52]:
They have the same challenges. They have the same issues, and I can pick one of those. Now of course, the more I can make it specific to that company, the more effective it's gonna be. But I but you should know that. And by the way, if you don't know that and you're new, then talk to somebody in the organization that does. Or spend spend a week calling existing customers and asking them. But if they are the hero you will learn about you will learn about them. And by the way, it is hard.

Tom Stanford [00:18:18]:
The cool thing about this though, it's so easy to separate yourself from the pack. Nobody's doing this. Sales reps are lazy, most of them. They just like, well this isn't I want I want people to call me and buy from me. I want to hold a bucket out of the window and catch money. Well, that's not gonna work. It did work for certain companies in certain period of time, but it doesn't work now. And and so it's easy to separate yourself if you're willing to do the work.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:18:42]:
But this is the shift that's occurred. Right? Like, I didn't agree with I actually didn't agree with this statement when I heard it a few years back, but I've changed my opinion on it. I didn't agree that

Tom Stanford [00:18:53]:
Yeah.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:18:53]:
You know, the seller had all the power because the buyer need the information, and now the information shift has occurred where the buyer's got all the information. They can just jump online. Yeah. It's it's Google is probably the best tool in the world if you wanna do any research. Right? So and then you've got reviews, and you've got podcasts. Now you've got LinkedIn, and you've got all these places where you can actually do your due diligence and and gather that research. So I didn't agree with that statement, but I have I have changed my view on it. But now I'm in the camp of just because the buyer's got the information, now they've got too much information.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:19:32]:
Right? Because they're like

Tom Stanford [00:19:35]:
Mhmm. They still need us.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:19:36]:
Exactly. And, but I think where the gap is is that we, or not, you know, I'm talking about me because I'm a sales professional and I put myself into the category of all sales professionals,

Tom Stanford [00:19:47]:
but we

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:19:47]:
as a profession aren't

Tom Stanford [00:19:48]:
necessarily

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:19:51]:
profession, aren't necessarily understanding how to help the buyer make sense of all that information. Like, we haven't gone deep enough to say, right. Let's actually put our, you know, walk in their shoes and going, looking at it from their eyes and going, hang on, now I'm in their position, I'm on their whiteboard, I'm having these conversations because there was a great, You know, I love to quote these things because it just it always brings it to life. But Jen Allen Forum the Challenger, sale, you know, revealed that their study, 39% of b to b decisions, of b to b engagements end up in no decision. Right? They maintain the status quo. Yeah. And even when there's a compelling reason to take action, they can't get consensus, they can't get alignment, and, ultimately, they stay the same. Right? Which means if we're if we're that salesperson that's engaging with that organisation and we've helped them, like the VP of manufacturing that you spoke about, we helped them, you know, speak to them and, like, we've got a pressing problem.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:20:55]:
Yeah. Our default, our overall equipment effectiveness, whatever the the metric is not there. We need to because our cost of goods is going up, blah blah blah, but then they don't do anything. We've failed that organisation. As a sales profession, we've actually failed to help them fix a problem. Right? If they've decided that, you know what, it's just too hard, I'll stay the same. Well, I

Tom Stanford [00:21:18]:
I actually think of it even even with more, growth, maybe that's a better way to say it, or or more work Forum maybe another elevated to another level, is I don't even think that we should help them fix the problem. I think we should own the problem. That's what I I think You know, the way the way I explain it to my customers all the time is that if you've if so we obviously, we sell our training initiatives. So, you know, you've got 500 sales reps, and you want to change the way they sell. That's not a small thing to do. And by the way, you're putting a party on when you train 500 sales reps, you're putting a party on for the 500 most vocal people in the company. And so this is this better go well. I've done that 100 of times in 35 countries.

Tom Stanford [00:22:01]:
How many times have you done it? Now, I wouldn't say that. But the reality is, they may have done it once, twice, or never. Yeah. That's probably it's either 0 times, one time, or twice. I've done it 100 of times. So who should own the problem? Yeah. I should lead the customer to the solution. We gotta identify what the problem is.

Tom Stanford [00:22:22]:
I'm better at identifying than than they are. And then we should help them come up with the best solution for the problem, and I should be better at that. Versus you tell me what you need and I'll go get it. And this is where the challenger got it right. The sales reps that really know want to lead and own the problem, they have that challenger mindset because they they want to teach the customer the right thing to do. The problem with the challenger is I see it's not really a problem, it's just a gap. Is that if you have to the person has to be receptive for you to be a challenger.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:22:50]:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And and and so

Tom Stanford [00:22:52]:
if you're a challenging and unreceptive customer, you really tick them off. It goes south fast. And so there's an element, a dimension to influence that you need to add to your repertoire, if you will, is the ability to create receptivity, which is not about selling. Getting my daughter to listen to me about who she should date is a completely different skill set than teaching her, you know, instead of selling her on which car to buy.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:23:18]:
So so let's go there. Right? Because Yeah. I'm I'm with you. Yeah. We're not again, when I read the book, The Challenger Sale, I I didn't look at it where I was challenging my customer. I it just challenged me in my thinking to go, well, how do I use insight to lead them to a point of Right?

Tom Stanford [00:23:35]:
Good point. Yeah. And I agree completely agree with that. Yeah.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:23:38]:
Yeah. That was my takeaway from it. I know some people hate the book, but I actually think what you've just, what you've brought up is really important. How do we get the buyer to be receptive to our new view or paradigm or thought that we're trying to get across to them?

Tom Stanford [00:23:58]:
Yeah. Well, like, we were talking about the first thing is we gotta get them to open the door. We gotta get we got them to bite us in. And so once we position the meeting, it's like, here's why I wanna talk to you. And the first reason I wanna talk to you is I'm gonna talk about, we're gonna focus on a problem that's on your whiteboard. And then we do need to share a disruptive truth to with them. This is the elevate. This is how to elevate you above Google.

Tom Stanford [00:24:20]:
Is to share a disruptive Growth. Challenger would call it an insight. About how how why I know a better way to solve your problem. In other words, there's something you don't know that I know about a better way to solve your problem. And we need to drop a little teaser in there. Most people think this, but actually this is true. Most people think you should do this, but actually this is true. Because I've been doing this a long time, or we've been doing this a long time.

Tom Stanford [00:24:43]:
We've got a lot of experience. And so we we we tease them with And a tease is not a manipulative thing. It's just a principle, a stat, a a truth that most people think this should happen, but we've figured out this should happen. Which is not about our solution. It's just what we know. And then the last thing is we need to share something that we can do that's unique. So those are the three elements of how to position the meeting. Then when we get them to open the door, and they say okay I'll talk to you about this.

Tom Stanford [00:25:10]:
This is the this is where things really change. Is that instead of selling, we need to, what I call, take the trip. Anytime you're influencing somebody, there's always 2 polarized points of of view, or it's not influence. When someone already agrees with you and they just say, tell me what to do, that's not influence. That's that's just education. That's just, hey. I'm looking to buy what you sell. Show me how to tell me what to buy.

Tom Stanford [00:25:33]:
Yeah. That's just education.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:25:36]:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Tom Stanford [00:25:36]:
So when somebody when you're influencing, they have a polarized point of view. You're on the North Pole and you see one way's up, and they're on the South Pole and they see something completely different. That's influence. And so the best way to get them to change their point of view is to first, and this is where people just do not get this because it's so counterintuitive, We have to take the trip, leave our position, and go down to their point of view until we can validate their point of view and feed it back to them till they say, exactly. And that's where the magic happens. And so when we can understand their point of view, feed it back to them, and they go, Exactly. Yeah. But you Then that's when Because most people in discovery think of it as an exchange of information.

Tom Stanford [00:26:21]:
Like sales reps think, oh, I want information so I can then say something. No. Discovery is about a connection at a deep level that tells people you care about them, you get them, and you validate their point of view. And our instincts tell us to argue.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:26:38]:
Yeah. That's really interesting. Actually, for me, that's mindset the highlight for this episode because in order like, what you're doing is saying I'm gonna put all my beliefs to the side for a moment. I'm gonna put my ego, which is a big one, to the side. And I'm I'm I wanna I actually wanna not just hear, understand and validate your point of view, and then I can bring in a disruptive thought that allows you to think a little bit differently. For me, that's a really powerful takeaway, Tom.

Tom Stanford [00:27:10]:
It's, it's so hard to do. I mean, I thought I was in a I would, like, think of a trip with friends, and we we started debating an idea during the week. It was one night late. And I realized I didn't take the trip. I didn't do it. And we just all we did was argue. One person states their point of view then you state your And all you do is argue. So as soon as the argument begins, influence ends.

Tom Stanford [00:27:31]:
And the hardest people to do it is the people that you love. But here's the truth. Until you set aside your agenda and listen to them because listening is not again about information. It's a statement of value. It's saying I care and respect you enough until I understand what's important to you and feed it back to you. And when they say exactly, when you say it says what you're saying is you feel this way, that you don't need this solution because Yep. Or blah blah blah. Or you have quit using our or you're not interested in this.

Tom Stanford [00:28:05]:
Or you believe and they say exactly. Then that's when that's magic.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:28:11]:
I probably needed to hear this when my daughter was 16, because it probably would have saved me 4 years of arguments.

Tom Stanford [00:28:17]:
Yeah. Prior Yeah. Teenagers. It was funny. It was easy for me to do this with my children, but very difficult for me to do it with my wife.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:28:25]:
Yeah. Good. Yeah. Well, mate, Tom, this has been awesome. I mean, I I I could probably you know what? We could probably do a part 2 here because I think we're we haven't even scratched the surface. Like, for me, I've loved listening to this. I've got I I know when I'm I've had a good episode when I'm I've taken, you know, a whole a whole page of notes on on my phone, and I'm like, you know what? These are some things I need to go back back to. So I really appreciate you coming on, but before we let you go, where's the best place for our listeners to find you? And we will put a link to your book Thank you.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:28:55]:
In the show notes, But where is the best place Forum listeners to find and engage with you?

Tom Stanford [00:28:59]:
Yeah. Well, the the the best place to check out the book is unreceptive book dotcom. There's a website dedicated to the book. And then ataslandtraining.com if they wanna check out the training that we provide. And, of course, I'm on LinkedIn, And it's Tom Stanfill on LinkedIn. So, yeah, love to connect in any of those ways. Thank you so much for having me on the show. Appreciate the support, and enjoy talking to a fellow, a fellow career, salesperson.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:29:29]:
Yeah. Awesome. Thomas, you wanna say, like, not just only thanks for coming on our podcast, but you've been training sellers for for decades, mate. So thanks for the contribution you make to our community.

Tom Stanford [00:29:39]:
I appreciate it.

Luigi Prestinenzi [00:29:39]:
You're helping elevate the profession of sales which is which is which is Fastuca, so thanks for everything that you do.

Tom Stanford [00:29:45]:
Thanks, my friend.