#203: The Secret to Building Rapport and Trust with B2B Sales Prospects Through Email
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Skalable Growth Podcast I'm pumped
that you've joined us this week cuz
this week's a very special episode.
We have an incredible guest.
Who is gonna talk to us about how you
can penetrate more inboxes and use
email as a mechanism for your outreach.
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Now, as I mentioned this week we
have the inbox evangelist Maggie
Blume from MailShake joining us.
So welcome to our show,
Maggie Blume: Luigi.
Thank you so, so much for being here.
Your intro just made me like
a hundred times more excited.
Not that I wasn't excited
before, but it is.
It's 7:00 PM I know we're on
different parts of the world
and I'm absolutely pumped to be
here, so thanks for having me on.
Luigi Prestinenzi: No, I'm pump.
You know why I'm excited because
you've gone from an account executive,
so you're in the sales hot seat.
Out there doing deals
to now an evangelizer.
So I would love to sort of know
you a bit of your origin stories.
H how did you get in sales,
and then how did you shift from
sales to being an evangelist?
Maggie Blume: Yeah, so I, it's funny, the.
Reason I got in sales and like everyone's
story to get in sales is, I don't think
anyone like was growing up and saying, I,
I can't wait to be a salesperson one day.
But the way I got into it, I was actually
an accountant before and so I'm an
accountant turned sales rep, and the
reason why I wanted to get in sales
is I knew I wanted to be in business,
like in the business side of things.
Yeah.
But I was an accountant
who was pretty shy.
And I thought to myself like,
I don't wanna be shy anymore.
Sure.
Like I'm like, everyone
in my family is outgoing.
I'm the youngest of five, so I've
always been kind of like more of a
shy, reserved, like introverted person
and I thought like, you know what?
I'm gonna go in sales just so I can talk
more or be better at talking or get like
the gift of gab, like what people say.
Which I think is funny now because like I
don't think there's any way to like just.
Change to be an extroverted person.
Like I'm still very introverted.
Am I better at conversation?
Absolutely.
But like my goal was literally
thinking like, I'm gonna like
change this way about me.
I'm gonna become so extroverted.
And sales actually taught me like how to
be a better introvert almost in a way.
I got so much better at listening.
Yep.
I got so much better at like,
Recapping what people said.
Like all those different things that we
know as a modern seller are great habits.
And it's like, wow, I didn't actually,
like, of course I learned how to have
better conversations, but it wasn't
about talking more, it wasn't about being
like this suave like smooths person.
It was really about, you know,
the art of listening and, and
understanding other people.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
Well, it's really interesting.
I'm just gonna go back a sip
because I've had the pleasure.
Um, I've trained, I've
trained, I do train a lot.
Of people in the professional
services space that are not in sales.
Actually, I've, I've worked with a large
firm called Grant Thornton, um Oh yeah.
Their partners and directors, which
I've done that for a couple of years,
so it's been really interesting.
But I, I wanna go back on that
because you're an accountant
and did you get into sales?
Like, did you wanna get into,
or did you start selling
while you were an accountant?
Was it to increase billable hours?
Or did you actually make the decision.
To go from an accountant to a
salesperson and change roles?
Maggie Blume: Yeah, I guess
that's a really good question.
Cause I didn't think about it that way.
But no, I wasn't doing any of my own
personal selling when I was an accountant.
But I did work for like my
entire career I've worked for
startups or small businesses.
Yeah.
And so the accountant I was working
for at the time was also like, The
head of business development slash
CFO slash ceo, you know, and his, he
was mostly running the company, but it
had originally been his dad's company.
Okay.
So I was working with him and I did get
to see like a lot of how he did business.
So like the way he interacted
with clients, the way he drove new
business, how they'd get new leads.
But it wasn't like how I got
into a selling position as a BDR
when I first started in sales.
It was nothing like that.
It was based off of referrals.
So it really was just
like, I wanna be in sales.
Like, yeah, I just, you know,
this is what I want to go do.
It wasn't really the direct inspiration
from my role and IT as an accountant.
Mm-hmm.
Luigi Prestinenzi: And I love, I love
how you described though, that your first
motive was to become more of an extrovert,
but what you realized is, The true art
of selling is that listening, being able
to understand the other person and then
recapping what you've learned about them.
Because I, I think there's
a bit of a myth here.
Uh, and, and although, you know, I'm, I'm
a guy that has, you know, so much energy.
You're absolutely right that, um,
even though sales is a transference
of enthusiasm, that energy is what you
need to bring to be able to continue
to drive that momentum, especially
because we're going getting a lot of
rejection right in sales, but mm-hmm.
The actual consultative selling component
is a critical path in the sales process
and being able to slow down, being
able to hear what the other person's
saying and ask thoughtful questions.
Is the
Maggie Blume: differentiator.
Yeah.
And I think the distinction that
you just made of, you know, like
that transferring of energy.
Yeah.
And versus ma like, and also having
a consultative approach I think
is why I'm, I'm a better account
executive than I was BDR sdr.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Because I think it comes into
play, of course it comes into
play when you're BDR sdr.
And the, the part that I really love about
that role is like being an investigator.
Yeah.
Like, I always like to think
it's like playing a game of clue.
Yeah.
Because you're like trying to figure out
like, You know, how's this gonna fit here?
I have this list of people
I'm gonna reach out to, like
what's gonna resonate with them?
But I think that's what I think
personally, I was a better account
executive than I ever was B D R, because
I liked that consultative approach.
There was a lot more listening that
I had to do, a lot more piecing it
together and a lot more back and forth
instead of maybe like that initial.
You know, transferring energy of
like getting Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So I feel like those skills specifically,
I felt like more aligned with.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
Okay.
So you're in AE you made that change.
You wanted to be more of a extrovert and
you learn, you know, fact that you're be
probably a better introvert for selling.
Um, what inspired the change
to go from sale selling?
To becoming an evangelizer.
Maggie Blume: Yeah, that's
a really good question too.
Um, so when I was going to my journey
of like, I wanna be in sales, part
of it started with like this mindset.
I always thought marketing
was pretty interesting.
Yeah.
And I didn't, like, I never had a
course before an SEO or I never knew.
Like, I felt like marketing was
this really technical role nowadays
because of obviously like everything
that goes on, like ads, social
media, things like that, which I
didn't have a lot of experience with.
So I thought, you know,
sales is somewhat related.
I wanna get, you know, more extroverted.
Let me go down the sales route first.
And then I fell in love with sales.
I was like, wow, I, I really like this.
I really love being an account executive.
And then, I had this opportunity
to come up at MailShake where
I could go into marketing.
Mm.
Um, and so now my role is
really like a split between a
salesperson and a marketing person.
And I think Evangelizers, like that title
is different at every single company.
When I first became one, I had a
conversation with Jen Allen, who is.
The chief evangelist at the Challenger.
Yes.
Yeah.
And, uh, you love Jen, her role.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Love Jen.
Um, but her role was,
was totally different.
I think like that role really has
to do with like, what's the business
going through at the time and mm-hmm.
Where, you know, where do they
really need an evangelist?
And what, where it came for Mail Shake
is we were trying to sell a market.
So when I first started working at
Mail Shake about three and a half
years ago, I sold to solopreneurs.
Yeah.
Um, and now we sell to more
small, medium sized businesses.
And to do that, we just wanted to get
their, our names out there a bit more.
So a lot of the.
Brand awareness work that I do as an
evangelist is like going on podcast
episodes, creating content on LinkedIn.
Mm-hmm.
Doing LinkedIn trainings internally.
So it feels like the baby
step of becoming a marketer.
Yeah.
And where I really like this
aspect of marketing too.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
It's really interesting isn't it?
Because then, and this is where I wanna
just touch on before we jump into the
topic, cuz I think now listen is, uh,
chomping at the bits to hear the do's
and don'ts and how they can write more
effective emails and get into people's
inboxes, but, I think you're touching
on something really important, right?
Because you, the, the, the, if you look
at the funnel, the top of, top of funnel
that creating awareness from a is is
historically been a marketer's job.
Mm-hmm.
And now we are seeing that kind of
crossover where great salespeople, SDRs,
BDRs, IAs, whichever title are doing
their own level of evangelizing, right?
They're actually out there.
Creating awareness, um, making
it easier for them to prospect.
Um, do you mind sharing a,
as an account executive.
What were some of those activities
that you, that you were doing, that
you are doing now as an evangelizer
that was creating awareness for
you during the sales process?
Maggie Blume: Yeah, yeah,
that's a really good point.
And I think that's where like this
evangelist title can kind of be like
that bridge for sales and marketing.
Yeah.
And like you said, some of the best
sales reps right now out there are
already have like this marketing approach
to any way that they approach sales,
which I think is super important.
Like it's an amazing.
Thing to be a split of both.
Yeah.
And I think, uh, Jed Marley on our team
does a really, really good job of this.
He's totally the head of outbound sales.
Nothing in his title says marketing,
but he has his own newsletter.
He does a podcast with me.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah,
Maggie Blume: he posts on LinkedIn
like he's doing the work of a
marketer day in and day out, just
because it's something that he
knows is important for that process.
So for me as an account executive, it
just helped me have a lot more credibility
and also just gave me, like, at the
time, thinking about it, it just, Gave
me like more people through my pipeline
that I probably wouldn't have had before.
And that pipeline was coming to me like
not male shake, if that makes sense.
So
Luigi Prestinenzi: yes,
Maggie Blume: I was excited about it.
Cause I'm like sweet.
Like they're gonna book with me.
They're not gonna book with
anyone else on my team.
Not that I'm in competition with them.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
Maggie Blume: But like, You know, we're
in sales to make money at the end of the
day, so I want those leads coming to me.
Luigi Prestinenzi: No, that's great.
I think that's a, that's a good learning
and probably probably another episode
that I'll have to jump into, right.
About becoming a marketer to
improve your sales process.
Mm-hmm.
But, but look, I really appreciate
you sharing your backstory
and what's led you to today.
So now I want to jump in, cuz again,
I'm, I'm, I'm a very tactical,
I'm a, I'm a geek, you know,
when it comes to, to this whole.
What you should do,
structuring emails, et cetera.
So talk to us.
What is, let's go to the
very start of this process.
If I want to use email as part
of my Outreach Act process.
Um, what's the most important
part that'll allow me to get my
emails into somebody's inbox?
Let's, let's focus on that first before
we talk about the messaging framework
and, and what we need to be doing.
Maggie Blume: Yeah.
So the most important
part is deliverability.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
Maggie Blume: And if people follow me,
they're gonna see that I hammer this
home all day, because it really is, if
we, if we just take a look and think
about it, it's like we all need to have
like, Some type of technical tools for
the channels that we're reaching out to.
Like obviously we need to have
a phone to make a phone call.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah,
Maggie Blume: we need to have an
email address to send an email, but
on top of that, of not just having
an email address, you need to have.
The right credibility and
capability to do that.
So where I see this go wrong and how I
like to, to share it with people is like,
you can have like the best messaging.
You could have just done
the, the best targeting.
Like use ai, have certain tools that
are helping you, copyright having
certain data tools helping you there.
But if for some reason your domain
is blacklisted, All those emails
are just gonna go into a spam
folder and no one's reading them.
So it's like, you're like working.
Like, I don't know, it's like you're
treading upstream or whatever that
that saying is, but like you're
putting in all this effort Yeah.
To get nothing in return because of
this one simple fix you need to make.
And it's not that technical and most
people have like one IT person on their
team that can help them and a lot of
things sellers can do on their own.
But it's really important to have, um,
before anything else in that process.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
And so what are some of the steps
if we talk about deliverability?
What are probably the two
or three musts to ensure.
Deliverability.
Maggie Blume: Yeah.
So if I was a salesperson right now,
let's say like an account executive or
a sales manager and I took a look at
the sequencing tool or whatever we do
to track email open rates, and I saw
the email open rates were under 20%.
That's where I'd start thinking
like, okay, well first off, only
20% of my emails are getting open.
Hmm.
But that's like the range of
where you most likely hit spam
or you didn't hit the inbox.
So maybe you wanted
into promotions folder.
Want maybe you wanted
into subscription folder.
The first thing I would do is go
to a tool called mx toolbox.com.
Maybe we can link it in the show notes.
I can send it to you after Louie G.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Okay.
Maggie Blume: But I would take a look
at your domain that you're sending
from, and if there's anything on there,
they're gonna give you a red flag, like,
You know, if you've been on a blacklist
or if your DM a C record isn't set
up, that's the first thing I would do.
So make sure you're not on a blacklist.
Make sure that your d
n s records are set up.
Um, and I have a guide.
I can also send a link too.
It's free after this.
Awesome.
Those are gonna be the first two things.
If you are.
You know, tech savvy, you could
probably set that up in your own domain.
Otherwise, for that over to
an IT person on your team.
If you are an AE or an individual
contributor, it's just gonna make
you look better in your role.
Like you care about things other than just
like closing deals or anything like this.
This is gonna help your old team.
Yeah, but that's the first
thing that you can do.
The second thing is go ahead
and remove links, images from
emails, make sure it's plain text.
And so the whole idea behind that is,
When you're writing a sales email,
people get really excited with these
automation tools, with data tools.
Yeah.
And they throw out all these practices of
like, we're just sending a one-off email.
Yeah.
Like you need to think about cold
email, about sending a one-off email.
If I was just gonna sit down,
write an email to you, Luigi.
I wanna make sure that that email
looks as much like a one-off email as
possible and that a human is sending it.
And I'm probably not sending you an image.
I'm not probably sending
you three links in it.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Mm-hmm.
Maggie Blume: I'm just sending
you a plain text email.
So I'd say that those are
the two biggest things.
Where I see people land in spam is
they don't check their domain and
make sure it's healthy to begin with.
So go do that on MX Toolbox.
And then the second thing is their
emails aren't plain and text.
Um, and that gets them into
the spam folder because.
Having links or images sent to someone
that you've never sent an email to before.
Is what spammers do.
Yeah.
Spammers take an email address that
they've never emailed out to before,
and they put an image in there for like
a free weight loss pill or a link to a
site you definitely shouldn't click on.
So it's like you just have to
think about those certain things.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
Yeah.
Maggie Blume: And be a
bit more human about it.
Okay.
So those are the two things
I'd say that, you know, really
could change it up for you.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Great.
So, and we're gonna get a guide, we're
gonna put that in show notes, but
we've got MX tool, um, you've got the
DNS records and make the email look
like it's send, you're sending it to
one person versus a thousand people.
Right.
Maggie Blume: Yeah.
Yeah.
And don't send it to a
thousand people either.
Like let's, yeah.
Let's try to segment a little bit better.
Yeah.
Which is something I could
harp on all day long too.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
I'm, I'm with you on this.
Right.
And so, okay, so the, so the first
thing is we, in, in order to get
more from our, uh, our email is we've
gotta think about deliverability.
What's the next thing, the next musts
like we must do when it comes to.
Using email as part of
our outreach process
Maggie Blume: comes with
the right people after that.
Yeah.
Um, I think some of this, the best sales
reps I've seen spend, like, they use these
tools that they have to their advantage.
Mm-hmm.
And they're not just lazy about it.
They're not like, okay, I'm
gonna look up sales managers of
startups with series A funding.
Like, they get really granular.
Um, and I was just talking
with this, um, Great.
She just became an account
executive, um, who was 400% to
quota, never even made one cold call.
She says that she spends like a ruthless
amount of time with her list Yeah.
And segments as much as possible.
So when she first started at
her company, They were like, oh,
we're reaching out to marketers.
And she was like, what marketers that
they, that could literally mean anything.
Yeah.
So she got really detailed.
I, I can't remember like the top of
my head, but it was like marketers
that use this certain tool Yeah.
Or have these certain ads on
their website, things like that.
So it really starts with getting really,
really granular with a list of people
that you're going to reach out to and
making sure that you segment that.
So like for example, Mail Shake can.
You know, help different teams, but we're
gonna help those teams for a different
reason and where they're at, like,
are you using a tool or have you never
used a sales engagement tool before?
That messaging is gonna
be totally different.
So the first, yeah, like the second step
after deliverability is having the right
people and making sure you're spending
enough time analyzing those people too.
Luigi Prestinenzi: I love it.
So think about your
ideal customer profile.
Think about the firmographics.
And the psychographics and probably
operational fit will, will go a long way.
And, and I love that.
Mm-hmm.
I love what you're sharing, right.
Because for me, I'm a, I'm a big
believer, um, in, I don't want
to create a list of a hundred.
I'd rather have five lists
of 20 people in each list.
Yeah.
Because then it's very, very segmented.
There could be some triggers in there,
um, they're behaving a certain way.
So that way the messaging that I
create, Will be really, really clear.
So that, that sort of
leads me to the next step.
So we've now looked at deliverability.
We've thought about who are we starting
to target, what's the next stage
in setting up a successful email?
Maggie Blume: Yeah, so exactly
what you just talked about too
is like that segmenting there.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
Maggie Blume: And then you
mentioned a great word is triggers.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
Maggie Blume: Get, do some
research on the triggers.
Don't just go to your marketing team,
even though I'm the person on the
marketing team, so I'm calling myself
out, but go talk to people who maybe
use a competitor of yours, talk to
people who have had this problem before.
Do a survey with people I know.
Uh, really, but basically
focus on your triggers.
Mm-hmm.
Because that's gonna be
besides the subject line.
That's gonna be like one of the
first things that people notice
about your email and you wanna make
sure that that's super relevant.
And that's where, you know, before I
think we, we, um, pressed play and,
and recorded this is, we were talking
about relevance and personalization.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Mm-hmm.
Maggie Blume: And that's where
I think like relevance is
gonna outwin personalization.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
Maggie Blume: Just because if
you get those triggers right.
That's something that someone's dealing
with a problem that's like twisting the
knife for them and they're like, oh yeah,
Maggie hit me on the head with this.
Like, now I do wanna listen here.
So Jed did a really cool thing
when he started on our team.
He did a polar, I think, or something
on LinkedIn where he asked like, Hey,
Who's using outreach right now that
would like, love to talk to me about,
you know, your experience with outreach.
And it wasn't to like, hear
any bashing about outreach.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
Maggie Blume: But like, you know, what
are some things of your experience, maybe
some issues that you're running into or
what you really, really like about it.
But he was just getting that data so
that, you know, he knew what kind of
triggers to reach out to people about.
Like it's you, you have to kind of
take that extra step as a salesperson
and not just rely on your marketing
team to say like, Hey, this is, you
know, why mail shake is so great?
It's like that's, that's not really
what's gonna make cold emails turn
or get people to reply to them.
It's gonna be those triggers.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
Maggie Blume: And then beyond that, so
triggers your value prop and then having
a really, really clear call to action.
And what I mean by that is, You basically
don't wanna make your leads think at all.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Mm-hmm.
Maggie Blume: You want it
to be a yes or no question.
What I personally like is giving
something away for free, and I know
marketers talk about this all the
time of like give, give, give, take.
But it's really true.
Like when I do cold email, I typically
always offer something like maybe it's
insight into cold email trends or insights
into deliverability or a quick video on
something that's gonna matter to them.
But I really think that's powerful
and just asking like, Hey, could make
a video for you in under a minute.
Do you want it?
And they can say yes or no.
Luigi Prestinenzi: I love that.
I'm actually taking notes, by the
way, because I think that's fantastic.
Um, but I just, I, there's so
many things I wanna unpack here.
So again, I wanna go back a
step that relevance will beat
personalization and, and I.
I didn't get the exact words I'm,
because that's gonna be a, a tile
that we make after this podcast.
Um, but I, I do wanna, I wanna go
through this cause I think I'm getting
a lot of, um, outreach messages.
My clients and people that I coach
show me what they're getting as well.
And it's, it's interesting, you know,
you get a, an email that says, oh,
you know, Luigi, I noticed that you
are the founder of Growth Forum.
And I'm like, that's fantastic.
Maggie Blume: I know.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Telling me
something I already know, right.
Um, or I've got another line says,
you know, uh, I see that you're the
co-founder of Growth Forum and you're
doing great things at Growth Forum.
Maggie Blume: Ugh.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Awesome.
Thank you for telling me that.
Right.
Um, there is no relevant, and then
they're, they're using personalization
or trying to personalize.
Mm-hmm.
And then the next line's their pitch, so.
Mm-hmm.
You know, talk to us.
When you talk about relevance, cause
I got my opinion on it, but mm-hmm.
Break down the premise of relevance and
what makes something relevant to someone.
Maggie Blume: Yeah.
And I think that's where you
need to think about your leads
or prospects in their shoes.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Mm-hmm.
Maggie Blume: Like what kind of
things are they going through if
they are using a competitor of yours?
What's the pains that they
might be going through?
Hmm.
Or if they're not using a tool
at all, like what have you
helped other customers do?
What was like Hmm.
What were the things they were
venting to you about when you were
on a discovery call with them?
Those are the things you need to bring up.
And, um, there's a sales trainer I had
who I, I feel like I shout him out every
single time I'm talking with someone.
His name is Mark Acres.
Um, he went out on his own.
He used to work at a Lego.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Lego, yeah.
Maggie Blume: But what he
told me, yeah, yeah, yeah.
What he told me is like, What if
your prospect was gonna go home
to their wife, like what are they
complaining about at work that day?
Luigi Prestinenzi: That's good.
Maggie Blume: And it's so true.
Yeah.
Because it's like, those are the things
that's like really bothering them.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
Maggie Blume: And you don't care if
they know that you're, you know, you're
the CEO of a company or that you did a
great job hiring two people or whatever.
They care about that thing that's
top of mind and that they're
venting to someone else about.
So I think that's where.
That's where that relevance comes
from, and it just takes time.
Maybe it's interviewing
people, maybe it's going on.
I've even been on Quora forums before.
People go on Reddit sometimes to
see people ask certain questions.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
,
Maggie Blume: Um but yeah, or listening
back to discovery calls that maybe AEs
have with, with your current customers.
Luigi Prestinenzi: But this goes
back to the finding the right people.
Not just doing your icp, but then thinking
about your personas and going, you know,
what is, what are the KPIs that drive the
persona, and what are the problems that
they're experiencing their role that could
impact them from achieving their KPIs?
Because that's essentially what the
message will be developed around.
It's interesting.
I was speaking to someone.
Um, Carl, he was on our, our last podcast,
uh, he's VP of, um, of, of, of sales for
Agora Pulse, and I love what he shared.
Maggie Blume: Mm-hmm.
Luigi Prestinenzi: He said, you know,
if, if, if you cannot write the job
description for the per for the prospect,
you don't know enough about them.
Right?
Maggie Blume: Yeah.
Luigi Prestinenzi: And
go, go and find that out.
Like if you can't do that,
add pop it on LinkedIn.
And if people like that don't
apply, Then it's, you've got a gap
in your knowledge about the person
that you're trying to sell to.
Maggie Blume: Love it.
Yeah.
And I think it's crazy.
I know, I know you do a lot of coaching,
mentoring, Luigi, and it's like
surprising and how many people I've
talked to that do cold outreach that try
these different methods and they have
no idea like, Their target market or
who their target market should be, or
what type of problems they're facing.
Like they just, and I almost think to
myself like, did you just totally skip
that step or something like, I'm shocked.
I don't know if you experienced
the same thing people you coach.
Luigi Prestinenzi: There's
some great tools out there.
Like, and this is the other thing
I, I see sellers use the tool
before doing the fundamentals.
So they'll go, I'm gonna use, um, let's
talk about, cause we love Jen Ellen.
I'm gonna use Lavender.
That's great.
Yeah.
Lavender's awesome.
It'll show you how to structure it.
It'll grade it.
But if you don't know the buyer
profile and you don't have a
hypothesis around the problem
statement, and then you're not putting.
What's important to them.
Now, you can make the score 95,
but it might not hit the mark
because you haven't actually
addressed what's important to them.
Right.
It's just like a sequencing tool.
You can load up a sequencing tool, and I
know I've worked with very large companies
who are sending 500 emails a day.
Using a sequencing tool and getting,
you know, appointments, but very low.
So they're just churning
through a lot of data.
Yeah.
Right.
And they haven't got the
foundations in place.
So I, I absolutely, I see it all the time.
And, and, and for me, this is where I.
The tool doesn't deliver
the results because anyone,
anyone can access the tools.
There's a, yeah.
Maggie Blume: You know?
No, I know.
Trust me.
Anyone can.
That's the scary part.
Yeah.
Sometimes even in my own sales process,
I'll turn people away because I'm like, I.
Listen, I don't think you're
ready to use Mail Shake like you,
you have like all maybe some of
these other things to figure out.
Mm-hmm.
Because if you do sign up for Mail Shake
and it is a sales engagement tool and
you try to sequence people and send them
emails, you're not gonna get results.
And guess what?
When you're not getting results,
you're gonna blame the tool.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Correct.
Maggie Blume: You're gonna blame me and.
You know, and cancel after a while
and not be a successful customer.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
But I think if the, the whole premise
for a sales engagement tool, a lot of
people forget the term engagement, right?
Maggie Blume: Mm-hmm.
Luigi Prestinenzi: And engagement's
gotta be, it's gotta happen both ways.
Maggie Blume: Mm-hmm.
Luigi Prestinenzi: So just because
I'm sending a hundred emails a day
and going, Hey, I'm ticking the
box and I'm putting it on auto.
If there's no engagement, like
the tools, the tools completely.
Irrelevant.
Right.
Um, mm-hmm.
And if I look at the best performers that
I've ever coached, most of them, most of
them are not using the tool at capacity.
They're, it's enabling them to do
some of the mundane tasks that they
can automate, but they're not just
turning the sequencing tool on.
They're con, you know, bef as they're
turning it on, they're customizing
on contextualizing the template,
putting a relevant trigger, um, and
they're spending that time doing less
by getting more outcomes from it.
So, um, and that's what I see quite often.
There's a common characteristic here
with high performers in the way that
they're structuring there, especially
from an outreach perspective.
So, so, hey, we've gone on a few things.
So we've got the deliverability,
we've got the right audience.
Um, I just wanna go back a step
as well, because you spoke about
the CTA, the call to action.
Maggie Blume: Mm-hmm.
Luigi Prestinenzi: W what call to actions.
I know you shared a li a nice one.
Insight into call emailing trends, like,
can I share it should be a yes or a no.
Maggie Blume: Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Close question.
Open question.
What's the best way to structure a CTA.
Maggie Blume: Closed question.
Okay.
So just looking for that, yes or no?
Um, because.
It's, you know, and Lavender came out with
this data, like it's, people are spending
like 10 to 11 seconds on an email.
Hmm.
If you're making someone think too
much, and you are, and, and this is
someone you don't know, a company you
don't know, it's the first time you're
getting an email from them and they're
asking you a question of like, you
know, what are your thoughts about that?
Mm-hmm.
It's like, I have to think about this
Luigi Prestinenzi: even more.
Maggie Blume: Yeah.
Like, so I'm just gonna,
you know, I'm busy.
I looked at this for 10 seconds.
I'm just gonna close it.
Maybe I did find it interesting though,
like maybe that trigger was awesome.
Mm-hmm.
I thought about it, but it still was
like, what are your thoughts on this?
Or, you know, something a
little bit more open-ended.
I still just may not have
the time to get back to you.
So my thought process is
like, All right, cool.
That that, that email from
Lu is cool, but his answer is
requiring a little bit more work.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
Maggie Blume: I'm gonna save it for later
and then that later never really happens.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
Okay.
So we're gonna do a closed
CTA and I actually love it.
And can I provide you with some insight
into cold email trends or something?
So that's pretty cool.
So actually I, I, I love where
you go into that with that CTA.
Maggie Blume: Yeah.
It, it's just, you know, adding,
you can, I mean, there's a bunch
of different ways you can do it.
Some people put interested.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Mm-hmm.
Maggie Blume: They put, you know, is this.
You know, does this resonate with you?
But as long as it's leading to yes or
no, like you really just want that person
thinking like, okay, let me just find
the easiest possible way to respond.
But what I typically like to
do is give them something.
So like an email I really like using is
we did this case study with a team who.
Had consistently seen 70% open rates.
Yeah.
And they sent over 160,000
emails because they're an agency.
So they work with tons of
different companies doing outreach.
It's not like just them alone, but
they have a lot of experience and
they've gotten a lot of good results.
So their open rates were like 60 to 70%.
They're meeting book rate was 10%.
Wow.
Which got people, yeah.
To turn, you know, and look at it.
So, I would kind of bait that in there,
have a trigger depending on who I was
reaching out that, bait that into it
a little bit and then say like, Hey,
do you wanna check out this article?
They give you the exact nine
steps they did to do that.
Has nothing to do with using Maha because
we're just the sequencing part of it.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
Maggie Blume: They talked about
deliverability, how they checked
this out, how they use a cta, how
they segment, things like that.
So I'm really just giving someone.
Something of value.
I know that's like the most cliche
term, but like, you know what I mean?
It, I, I'm giving something that
they're interested in because of the
trigger that I originally reach out to.
And what I love about this, Luigi,
is like, it's the beginning of this
entire consultative experience.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
Maggie Blume: All the way from
the start of the first cold email.
So you're already starting
it out with like, Here's some
knowledge I'm giving you.
Mm-hmm.
But it's not like me
shoving it in your face.
Like mail shake gives you 70% open rates.
It's maybe taking even third party data.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
Maggie Blume: Like we use a resource
from HubSpot that I love using.
And HubSpot has a sequencing tool.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah.
Maggie Blume: But they have a ton
of different tools, but there's
like this one list that they have
of spam words and it's amazing.
Yeah.
And I say like, Hey, do
you wanna check it out?
But that's a start of
me consulting with them.
And it's not about, Pushing
male shake down their throats.
It's about like, Hey, these are things
that you know could be affecting
you if you're not using them.
Let's talk about it.
Um, yeah.
And then it starts that
whole relationship that way.
Luigi Prestinenzi: No, I love that
because you're leading with insight.
Insight then creates value.
It starts to get them think differently.
Once they can start to think differently,
they see you as, you know, somebody that
could maybe create further value and
then it'll make it easier because that
relationship tension's dropped and they're
more open to having a conversation.
So I love, I love the way
you've just structured that.
Um, hey, we could absolutely keep talking
on the effect, um, because I think we
haven't even scratched the surfers.
Um, so we might have to do a, we
might have to do another show, but
maybe get you with our community.
But before we, we sort of wrap up.
Where is the best place for our
listeners to find and engage with you?
Maggie Blume: Yeah, you can just follow
me on LinkedIn, um, or not just do that.
I do have a podcast.
I do, uh, Jed and I do, uh, the
Practical Prospecting podcast.
It's mostly for individual contributors
out there or anyone that's doing outreach
and um, We just did a guest episode.
We'll be doing a couple others,
but I think we just crossed over
like recording our 30th episode,
so I'm excited about that.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Great, great.
Maggie Blume: Yeah, but go check that out.
Um, and you'll also find those
links on my LinkedIn profile.
So easiest places.
Just look up Maggie Blume.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Awesome.
So we're gonna make sure in the show
notes for all of our listeners, we're
gonna have the, the podcast link we're
gonna have, you're gonna send, oh, we're
gonna, We're gonna send, we're gonna have
the, uh, the guide, that guide that you
shared earlier, and we'll have a link
for where you can connect with Maggie.
So I just wanna say, hey, thank you so
much, um, for being, uh, an evangelist
on our show, um, and sharing why,
you know, email is far from dead.
There are, you know, just the way that
we set it up, the way that we think about
it maybe needs to change a little bit.
Um, so I wanna say thank
you for the contribution you
make to the sales community.
Maggie Blume: Well, thank you.
It was an honor and a
pleasure being on here.
Thank you so much, Louise Luigi,
and thanks for being on here.
Almost messed up your name, but
thanks everyone for listening.
