How to Sell Podcast: Make How You Sell, Why You Win

Tom: Wait a minute.

Wait a minute.

This

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This is the Skalable Growth Podcast.

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Tom Stanfill, he's the author of
Unreceptive and he's the co-founder

of Aslan Training, and they've
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Tom: Welcome to the show, Tom.

Well, thank you Luigi.

Appreciate you having me on the show.

It's excited, excited to
meet you, be on your show.

Heard a lot about you guys.

Luigi: Yeah, thanks mate.

And we are really, really
excited to talk about the

barriers that a stopping sellers.

Um, especially as we see, you know,
I saw some interesting data recently.

That approximately 24% of
sales teams are hitting target.

So there's a lot of sellers that are
obviously a lot of barriers that are

preventing sales, sales people right now.

So I'm keen to dive deep into this
discussion, but before we, we jump into

this discussion, we'd love to know.

a bit more about you, Tom, and, and,
and how you started in this world of, of

Tom: selling.

Well, I, I started in selling
while I was actually in college.

I got married in college, had two
kids before I graduated college,

so I had to sell to, to eat.

Uh, and actually I've been a hundred
percent commissioned sales in

some form or fashion since that.

I was selling, uh, , I think it's phone
books, advertising and phone books and all

kinds of things to get through college.

Um, and then when I got outta college,
I was a hundred percent commissioned

sales rep and really have been in that
role some form of fashion in that role.

, um, since then, so love selling, love
the opportunity to serve customers

and help them solve problems and
control my time, control my income.

Mm-hmm.

it's, it's the greatest profession and

Luigi: I love it, isn't it?

I love, I love it when I, I
talk to somebody like yourself

who's just passionate.

Yeah.

They love it.

They love the thrill of the commission.

Chase, you know, I've always
been commiss, been commissioned

only for such a long time and.

It's, it's such a thrill, right?

To be able to acquire an opportunity
and make your own money and Yeah.

And that's, you know, it's,
it's the thrill of the chase.

So absolutely love that, that description.

Yeah.

And you, you, you're now the co-founder.

Um, you run a business that
essentially helps organizations

help their sales teams level a lot.

Yeah, exactly.

Skill perspective.

And would love to know, though, you wrote
a book, um, unreceptive, what was Motivat?

What motivated you to write

Tom: a book?

Well, we, we learned the, the
genesis of the company that we

started called Aslan Training.

W was born out of this need to
figure out how to get , how to

be successful in the toughest
environment possible, which is cold.

Yeah.

Um, I had started so I
became so successful in sales

that I started a company.

To basically generate leads and
appointments for other salespeople.

And so they were companies like Hewlett
Packard and uh, a lot of well-known

companies were paying us to say, Hey,
our sales reps struggled to get meetings

and get through the door and prospect
and you know a lot about prospecting.

I know that's something you're
really passionate about and good at.

Um, and so we were doing that for
them and we were training our.

on a very different way to get meetings.

And what we realized early on and
what was working for us is realized

that customers aren't rejecting a
solution or a product or a service.

They're rejecting a sales call.

So the harder you try to sell,
the more resistant they became.

Yeah.

And so this was a, so we started
developing a brand new or different

way to, to prospect and to sell.

And we started, we basically developed
our own training program and a company.

Um, it was Blue Cross Blue Shield
wanted to vet our service and said,

Hey, before we outsource prospecting and
Legion to you, you know, we basically

were an SDR BDR outsource company.

Um, let's see your training.

So it was like, sure, I mean
it was posters and br I mean

it was very archaic, but Yeah.

Um, and so they came and looked
at our sales training program and

they were like, this is amazing.

Will you come train our field sales?

. Hmm.

And we're like, oh, okay.

We had no clue, you know, anything
about the training world, but that

was, uh, the first clue that we
were doing something different.

I eventually sold that company
and started a sales training firm.

And this is in the nineties.

Yeah.

And so we've been doing it ever since.

And so the, the, the genesis of the
book was really, Um, it's getting

more, and like you said at the
beginning, it's getting so difficult

for people to be successful.

I wanted to make our
unique methodology public.

Um, and really it's all about this
idea that every time you make a

call, either you're trying to get a
meeting or you're trying to persuade

people either open or they're closed.

Mm.

Like the door is open, come on in.

I wanna talk to you.

Or the subject's open.

Yes.

I'd like to hear why I
should change products.

Or buy your Yeah.

Service or listen to you.

And the problem is, is when someone's
closed, which most people are closed

now, which you're, you're, I think the
data is supporting that when people

are closed, the more you try to sell
them, the more closed they become.

. Yeah.

So if you sell, you lose.

If you don't sell, you lose.

And so the book is all about changing
the way people think about converting

this rapidly growing number of
unreceptive prospects and customers.

Because the traditional
approach does not work.

It actually

Luigi: backfires.

Yeah.

This is interesting, right?

So mm-hmm.

and, and look, I've got my
own hypothesis on why Yeah.

Our buyers have become unreceptive.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

. But would love to hear your
view on this, like what.

Why do you think, what's the driver?

The buyers are now, you know,
they've got that barrier.

There is all, there is a trust gap.

Uh, there's so many sales
training companies, there's so

many great training products.

There's so many, you know, companies
spend billions of dollars per annum

trying to upskill their sales force.

Yeah.

Yet the barrier with the buyer is still,
there is still a massive trust gap.

Tom: Well, I think the trust gap
has always existed, but the customer

didn't feel like they had a.

. Okay.

Right.

So now with the amount of
information available to the

customer, I don't need you.

Mac McKenzie did a study recently
that that measured customer's

willingness to talk to a sales rep
when they're evaluating a solution.

So this isn't, this isn't early.

This is like I'm, I'm
evaluating a solution.

And the question is, and this is
a b2b, this is a B2B question.

It said, if you know B2B world,
Uh, they said what per, so what?

They ask what percentage of
customers want to talk to a seller?

Ed has declined 120% in the
last three years, and I think a

lot of that's just information.

It's like, look, I don't need you.

I don't need you to tell me what I
already can find out on, on Google.

And, and the amount of
information we receive on a

daily basis is so overwhelming.

People just do not need another sales rep.

I mean, think about when you get on
LinkedIn, like I'm an owner of a.

Like you.

Yeah.

So I get hit every day by five or
six people on LinkedIn who want to

connect with me to sell me something.

Then I got a hundred and something
emails, now phones stopped, mails

slowed down, but I'm, and I've got text
coming in, I've got email coming in.

I've got media.

I mean, it's just, people are just
like, I, I just can't handle it anymore.

So we're not evaluating, we're,
we're working, we're we want to be in

control of, of the information we get.

So I think one more sales call
is, . Yeah, . And also there's a,

there's a disconnect between, uh,
the, uh, the people are isolated.

You know, people don't walk
into buildings anymore and

people don't talk on the phone.

So it's, it's, we have, we, technology,
it used to be you had to answer your

phone, no one answers their phone anymore.

And it's interesting you

Luigi: say that, right?

Because I can absolutely, I
absolutely concur with this.

because I see it, I'm on
the receiving end as well.

Mm-hmm.

. Yeah.

I've actually got a folder in my inbox.

Oh, really?

Of all the emails that I receive
that are just feature focused.

Yeah, they're selling, they're
pitching because they're great examples

that are use in training, right?

To say, guys, this is, this is what's
happening in the inbox of your buyers.

How do you actually stand out?

So let, let's talk about that, if that's
a barrier right now, if the barrier

that sellers are actually faced with is.

, their, their prospects, their buyers
are just overwhelmed with information.

Right.

They're now not just having that
one barrier, but they're kind of

resisting sellers talking to them.

Yeah.

What's a strategy that salespeople
can use today that will reduce.

That resistance?

Well,

,
Tom: the easy answer is
don't act like a salesperson.

. It's like, and it's funny.

I mean, the solution to the
problem is very counterintuitive.

. Yeah.

So one of the two, the first thing sellers
need to do is change their mindset.

And this is gonna sound
like, okay, whatever.

But this is critical.

It's really critical.

The first thing and the big, the first
barrier is the perception of you.

The first perceptivity barrier we have
to change is their perception of us.

And the the way to do that is to,
is to, first we need to really

decide, and this is a key word,
decide who is the hero of the.

Because our motive is ultimately
transparent if we're listening,

so that we can try to make a point
if we're listening, so we can sell

something if we're reaching out
a LinkedIn, because we ultimately

don't care about what they need.

We're just trying to sell
our product and service.

Yeah, that's all gonna be revealed.

Our motive is ultimately transparent,
so we've gotta start by making a

decision to put the customers first.

We really have only two options.

We either calling people to come up with
a ultimate solution to their problem,

or we're calling them to sell something.

And when we, yeah, when we are
calling them to sell something

or we have commission breath.

And our breath smells,
we, and they can smell it.

And so it really starts with
the decision on every call to

make, to decide who is first.

And that sounds, again, so cliche and
so, but it's, it is a game changer.

And so that's a basic thing that we
try to remind people, but there's a

very also very tactical thing that
sellers do is we want to control.

and we want try, we want to try to
put pressure on the customer cuz

we're afraid they're gonna leave.

Mm-hmm.

. And we've worked so hard to get
there that we put pressure on them.

Whether, whether it's perceived
pressure or it's actual pressure.

And so one of the things that we
teach in the, uh, teach in our

program, or, and we talk about in the
book, is we have to drop the rope.

There's a perceived tug of war that
happens every time I'm in a conversation

because my title says sales rep, and they
think you want to sell something, you want

to win, you want to earn a commission.

And so there's this natural tendency to
pull back and resist this, this pressure.

Uh, and so what we teach sales
reps is they need to drop the rope.

They need to communicate, Hey, I don't
really know, especially if it's early

in the process, I don't really know
if what, what I sell is something.

. Yeah.

You know, it's saying things
like, well, you seem like you're

happy with, or you're doing this.

Why would you talk to us if
this already works for you?

Or if you're currently working with
so-and-so, or maybe you don't need to

spend, you know, why is your so expensive?

Well, you know, we are more expensive.

We're one of, yeah, our
solution costs more money.

My goal today is determined if you should
even pay more, you may not need to.

Yeah.

And so it's, it's creating this, it's
removing tension, which makes you sound.

This makes you sound different
than every other sales rep.

So those are a couple of key fundamental
things that actually drive everything

that you do through the process.

Okay.

So I mean,

Luigi: look, I, I'm, I'm, I'm,
I really love this, right?

So the first thing we've gotta do,
if we wanna, if we wanna remove or

reduce that resistance, is we've
gotta first change the way we look.

our customers and our prospects.

Mm-hmm.

really be transparent in the way
in which we get engage with them.

Um, I love the term, make the pro,
you know, make the customer, make

the prospect the absolute hero.

Yeah.

And then reduced attention.

Just drop the rope by saying, Hey,
you know, . I'm not here to sell

anything because at this point I
don't know if there's a need or if

there's a huge case for us to even
be guiding this conversation forward.

Right.

So I love that.

Um, talk to us about the next barrier.

Like what's another key barrier sellers
need to remove to make this journey

easy for both the buyer and the seller?

Tom: I think, I think probably.

. Uh, one of the most impactful
things that, um, I talk about in the

book is how to position a meeting.

Mm-hmm.

, but it's also how to position
your solution during the meeting.

So there's a model that we teach and
there's, there's three elements to it.

It's captivate, elevate, and separate.

. So it's, it's, it's sort of the
three elements of, of positioning.

Let's just say getting a meeting.

Like if you want a meeting with somebody,
the first thing you need is an invitation.

Yeah.

Until someone says, or maybe a better
way to say this, if you want to

influence somebody before you ever can
influence you, they have to extend an

invitation that says, what do you think?

Fill in the blank.

Yeah.

Until they actually either say it
to themselves or say it to you.

What do you think about
what you say doesn't matter.

So you've gotta get an invitation.

And the, one of the, the best
ways to get an invitation is

how you position the meeting.

And so there's three
elements of position meeting.

The first one is you want to capture
their attention by focusing on not

your solution, but what's on their.

Yeah, if you lead with what's on their
whiteboard, just so you think about

everybody you're gonna talk to has a
whiteboard, whether it's metaphorical

or it actually has a whiteboard.

Like I have things on
my whiteboard right now.

I look at it.

Yeah.

There's three things I'm working
on right now are on my whiteboard.

It's on the left hand side.

If you say anything that's related to
those three things, I will listen to you.

. Yeah.

It's like if I show you a picture, like
I, I was playing golf in Ireland last

week, and the guy that on the trip, you
know, I would send out pictures that

I took during the day and the guy that
was on the trip with me was next to me

while he was looking at the pictures.

And so what does he do?

He pulls that picture up and
he blows it up to see who.

, me or him, he blows it up to see himself.

We all do the same thing.

We will look at a picture every time.

If we are in the picture, they
don't care about a picture of us.

And so to get somebody's attention
to capture their attention, you

talk, you lead with what's on their
whiteboard, you talk about them.

Mm-hmm.

, uh, and, and if somebody's
thinking, well, how do I know that?

Well, if you are in a certain
market, you should be able to guess.

Luigi: Actually, I wanna
hone, hone on that, right?

Because I see that information gap.

Yeah.

A lot where buyers are
reaching out to a seller.

Mm-hmm.

, yet they don't know the persona.

Let's talk about 'em in the,
in the technical frame, the

persona, they don't know.

the buying profiles objectives.

They don't know what's top of mind.

And there was a study that was
done by Vanilla Soft and yeah.

Um, the actual study showed that
a 2000 senior decision makers, 89%

of them said, if you reach out to
me, we expect you to know me, know

my industry, and know my problems.

Right?

basic.

Um, so there's the expectation.

The buyers absolutely expect this today.

yet so many sellers don't understand
exactly what is, you know, what

are the commercial conversations,
right, they are having with their

Tom: teams.

Right?

It's because this goes back to the
first point that I was making, is who's,

if the customer isn't the hero of the
story, you don't know anything about 'em.

If they are the hero of the
story, Then you study them.

I mean, if you serve a VP of
manufacturing, there's five problems

that all VPs of manufacturing face,
and you can pick one of the five if

you, if you serve the technology space.

There's five things, the
technology leaders all.

And so if you get to know the customers
and every time you meet with them, you

asked them what do they care about?

What's on their whiteboard
very quickly, if you'll underst

steel start to see the same.

Like I serve VPs of sales
and I serve VPs of learning.

They all say pretty much the same thing.

They have the same challenges.

, they have the same issues,
and I can pick one of those.

Now, of course, the more I can
make it specific to that company,

the more effective it's gonna be.

But I, but you should know that.

And by the way, if you don't know them
and you're new, then talk to somebody

in the organization that does Yeah.

Or spend.

Spend a a week calling existing
customers and asking them.

But if they are the hero you
will learn about, you will learn.

. Yeah.

And by the way, it is hard.

The cool thing about this though, it's so
easy to separate yourself from the pack.

Nobody's doing this.

You know, sales reps are lazy.

Most of them.

They just like, well, this isn't, I want,
I want people to call me and buy from me.

I wanna hold a bucket outta
the window and catch money.

Well, that's not gonna work.

It did work for a certain
companies in certain period of

time, but it doesn't work now.

And so it's easy to separate yourself if
you're willing to do the work, but this is

Luigi: the shift that's occurred, right?

Like this is, I didn't agree with,
I actually didn't agree with this

statement when I heard it a few years
back, but I've changed my opinion on it.

I didn't agree that, you know, the seller
had all the power because the buyer need

the information and now the information.

Shift has occurred where the buyer's
got all the information, they can just

jump online and yeah, it's, it's, Google
is probably the best tool in the world

if you wanna do any research, right?

So, and then you've got reviews and
you've got podcasts, now you've got

LinkedIn, and you've got all these places
where you can actually do your, you due

diligence and, and gather that research.

So I didn't agree with that statement,
but I have, I have changed my view on it.

Yeah.

But now I'm in the camp of, just
because the buyer's got the information,

now they've got too much information.

Right.

Because they're like mm-hmm.

, they still need us.

Exactly.

And but I think where the gap is,
is that we, or not, you know, I'm

talking about me cuz I'm a sales
professional and I put myself into the

category of all sales professionals.

Yeah.

But we as a profession, aren't
necessarily understanding how to help the

buyer make sense of all that information.

Like we haven't gone deep enough to
say, right, let's actually put our, you

know, um, walk in their shoes and go.

Looking at it from their
eyes and going, hang on.

Now I'm in their position,
I'm on their whiteboard.

I'm having, having these conversations
because it was a great, you know, I

love to quote these things because
it just, it always brings it to life.

But Jen Allen from the Challenger, um,
sale, you know, revealed that their

study, 39% of B2B decisions, um, of
B2B engagements end up in no decision.

Right.

They maintain the status quo.

Yeah.

And even when there's a
compelling reason to take.

They can't get consensus,
they can't get alignment, and

ultimately they stay the same.

Right?

Which means if we're, if we are that
salesperson that's engaging with

that organization and we've helped
them, like the VP of manufacturing

that you spoke about, we help them
on, you know, speak to them and

like, we've got a pressing problem.

Yeah.

Our defi, our overall equipment
effectiveness, whatever the,

the metric is not there.

We need to.

, our cost of goods is going
up, blah, blah, blah.

But then they don't do anything.

We've failed.

Yeah.

That organization as a sales
profession, we've actually failed

to help them fix a problem.

Right.

Yeah.

If they've decided that, you know
what, it's just too hard, I'll

Tom: stay the same.

Well, I, I actually think of it
even, even with more, uh, gravity.

Maybe that's a better way say, or, or
more work or maybe another el el elevated

to another level is I don't even think
that we should help them fix the problem.

I think we should own the problem . That's
what I, I think, you know, the way, way I

explain it to my customers all the time,
I said, If you've, if so we obviously,

we sell large training initiatives, so
you know, you've got 500 sales reps and

you want to change the way they sell.

That's not a small thing to do.

Yeah.

And by the way, you're putting a party
on, when you train 500 sales rep reps,

you're putting a party on for the
500 most vocal people in the company.

And so this is, this better go
well, I've done that hundreds

of times in 35 countries.

Yeah.

How many times have you.

. Now, I wouldn't say that.

Yeah, but the reality is they may
have done it once, twice, or never.

Yeah, that's probably, it's either
zero times one time or twice.

I've done it hundreds of times.

So who should own the problem?

Yeah, I should lead the
customer to the solution.

We gotta identify what the problem is.

I'm better at identifying
it than than they are.

And then we should help them come up
with the best solution for the problem.

And I should be better at that versus you
tell me what you need and I'll go get it.

And this is where the
Challenger got it, right?

Yeah.

The sales reps that really know want to
lead and own the problem, they have that

challenger mindset because, They want to
teach the customer the right thing to do.

The problem with the challenger
is I see it, it's not really

a problem, it's just a gap.

Is that if you have to, the person has to
be receptive for you to be a challenger.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And the And, and so if you're
a challenging and unreceptive

customer, you really tick them off.

It goes south fast.

And so there's an element of dimension
to influence that you need to add to.

Repertoire, if you will, is the
ability to create receptivity,

which is not about selling.

Kidding my daughter to listen to
me about who she should date is a

completely different skillset than
teaching her, you know, is, than

selling her on which car to buy.

Luigi: So, so let's go there, right?

Because Yeah.

I'm, I'm with you.

Yeah.

I, I, we're not, and again, , when
I read the book, the Challenger

Sale, I, I didn't look at it where
I was challenging my customer.

I, it just challenged
me in my thinking Yeah.

To go, well, how do I use insight
to lead them to a point of aha?

Right.

Tom: Good point.

Yeah, and I agree,
completely agree with that.

Luigi: Yeah.

That was my takeaway from it.

I know some people hate the book and,
but I, I actually think what you've

just, what you've, what you've,
um, brought up is really important.

How do we get the buyer to be receptive?

Yeah.

To our new view or
paradigm or thought mm-hmm.

that we're trying to get across to

Tom: them.

Yeah.

Well, like we were talking
about, the first thing is we

gotta get them to open the door.

Yeah.

We gotta get, we got them to invite us in.

And so once we position the meeting, it's
like, here's why I want to talk to you,

and the first reason I wanna talk to you
is I'm gonna talk about, we're gonna focus

on a problem that's on your whiteboard,
and then we do need to share a disruptive.

to with them.

This is the elevate.

This is how to elevate you above Google.

Yeah.

Is to share a disruptive truth.

Challenger would call it an
insight about how, why I know a

better way to solve your problem.

In other words, there's something you
don't know that I know about, a better

way to solve your problem and we need
to drop a little teaser in there.

Most people think this,
but actually this is true.

Most people think you should do this,
but actually this is true because

I've been doing this a long time, or
we've been doing this a long time.

We've got a lot of experience and so we.

We tease them with.

And a T is not a manipulative thing,
it's just a principle, a stat, a,

a truth that most people think this
should happen, but we've figured out

this should happen, which is not about
our solution, it's just what we know.

And then the last thing is
we need to share something

that we can do that's unique.

So those are the three elements
of how to position the meeting.

Then when we get them to open the.

And they say, okay, I'll
talk to you about this.

This is the, this is where things really
change is though, instead of selling,

we need to, what I call, take the trip.

Anytime you're influencing somebody,
there's always two polarized points

of view, or it's not influenced when
someone already agrees with you and

they just say, tell me what to do.

That's not influence, that's,
that's just education.

That's just, Hey, I'm
looking to buy what you sell.

Show me how to tell me what to buy.

That's just education.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

But when somebody, when
you're influencing, they have

a polarized point of view.

You're on the North Pole and
you see one way's up mm-hmm.

, and they're on the South Pole and they
see something completely different.

That's influence.

And so the best way to get them to change
their point of view is to first, and

this is where people just do not get
this because it's so counterintuitive.

Yeah.

We have to take the.

Leave our position and go down to
their point of view until we can

validate their point of view and feed
it back to them, till they say Exactly.

And that's where the magic happens.

And so when we can understand
their point of view, feed it

back to them and they go exactly.

Yeah, but you know, then that's when,
because most people in discovery think

of it as an exchange of information.

Like sales reps think, oh, I want
information so I can then say something.

No, discovery is about a connection
at a deep level that tells people

you care about them, you get them
and you validate their point of view.

Mm-hmm.

and our instincts tell us to argue.

Yeah.

Luigi: That's really interesting.

Actually.

For me, that's kind of the
highlight for this episode because.

In order, like what you're
doing is I'm gonna put all my

beliefs to the side for a moment.

Yes.

I'm gonna put my ego, which
is a big one to the side.

Yeah.

And I'm, I'm, I want to hear,
I'll actually want to not

just hear, understand, and
validate your point of view.

and then I can bring in
a disruptive thought.

Yeah.

That allows you to think
a little bit differently.

For me, that's a really powerful takeaway,

Tom: Tom.

It's uh, it's so hard to do.

I mean, I thought, was it a, I would
like think of a trip with friends.

We, we started debating
an idea during the week.

It was one night late, and I
realized I didn't take the trip.

I didn't do it.

Yeah.

And we just, all we did was argue one
person states their point of view.

Then you state your,
and all you do is argue.

So as soon as the argument
begins, influence ends.

and the hardest people to do
it is the people that you love.

But, but here's the truth, until you set
aside your agenda and listen to them,

because listening is not again about
information, it's a statement of value.

It's saying, I care and respect
you enough until I understand

what's important to you.

and feed it back to you.

And when they say exactly when
you say, so what you're saying is

you feel this way that you don't
need this solution because Yep.

Or blah, blah, blah.

Or you have quit using our, or
you're not interested in this.

Or you believe and they say, exactly,
man, that's when, that's magic.

I

Luigi: probably needed to hear this when
my daughter was 16 because it probably

would've saved me four years of arguments.

? .
Tom: Yeah.

Pr.

Yeah.

Teenager.

It's funny, it was easy for me to
do this with my children, but very

difficult for me to do it with my wife.

Oh,

.
Luigi: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, mate, Tom, this has been awesome.

I mean, I, I, I could probably, you
know what, we could probably do a

part two here, because I think we're,
we haven't even scratched a surface.

Like for me, I've loved listening to this.

I've got, I, I know when I've had a good
episode when I'm, I've taken, you know,

a whole, a whole page of notes on, on
my phone and I'm like, you know what?

These are thin things I
need to go back on back to.

So I really appreciate you coming on.

But before we let you go, where's the
best place for our listeners to find you?

And we will put a link to your
book, thank you in the show notes.

But where is the best place for
our listeners to find and engage?

Tom: Yeah, well the, the, the
best place to check out the

book is unreceptive book.com.

There's a website dedicated to the book
and then@aslantraining.com if they want

to check out the training that we provide.

And of course, I'm on
LinkedIn and it's awesome.

Um, Stan, fill on LinkedIn.

So, uh, you know, love to
connect in any of those ways.

Thank you so much for
having me on the show.

Appreciate the support and,
uh, enjoy talking to a fellow.

Uh, fellow career, uh, salesperson.

Luigi: Yeah.

Awesome.

Thomas, I wanna say like, not
just only thanks for coming on our

podcast, but you've been training
sellers for, for decades, mate.

So thanks for the contribution
you make to our community.

I appreciate it.

You're helping elevate the
profession of sales, which is,

which is, which is fantastic.

So thanks for everything that you do.

Tom: Thanks my friend.