How to Sell Podcast: Make How You Sell, Why You Win

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Growth Forum

Luigi: Production

..............., this is the Skalable Growth Podcast.

I'm your host, Luigi Prestinenzi, and
each week we will go on a journey.

A journey that will inspire you.

Motivate you and help you
be the very best you can be.

Our focus will be on mindset,
tactics, and the strategies that

will enable you to create more
opportunities and win more deals.

Welcome to another episode of
the Skalable Growth Podcast.

I'm pumped, honored, and excited
that you have joined us for what

will be another incredible episode
for all of our longtime listeners.

Again, I just wanna say thank
you for showing up each and every

week, and for the comments and
for the engagement on our content.

Thanks for what you do, because it allows
me to get up each and every day to do what

I do and creating this content for you.

And if you're a first
time listener, thank you.

Thank you for jumping on.

Thank you for checking out our content.

We hope you take away some value in
your quest in being the best you can be.

Now, this week we have the chief marketing
officer of Insightly, c r m, and this

is a really interesting episode, right?

Even though a lot of you are in
sales, a lot of you're out there

pounding the pavement, creating your
own pipeline, and making it rain.

I'm really excited to.

Chip's point of view on this episode
because as the salespeople today,

our role in going out and creating
awareness and doing a lot more marketing

activities, it's becoming more and more
of a requirement in our roles, right?

And so that line is getting
very gray of where marketing

and sales kind of intercept.

And so I asked Chip to talk with
us about really thinking, what do

marketers think about and how do,
how can we create more awareness?

And as sales professionals, how
do we then take some of those

concepts and execute it ourselves?

Because at the end of the day, you
know, especially in a tighter market,

Our need or our requirement to go out
there and generate new opportunities.

It is more important than ever before,
especially in tougher markets, right?

We have to be more proactive in the
way we reach out to our prospects and

we reach out to our target market.

So this particular episode will
provide you with a different point

of view when it comes to going out.

Creating awareness, creating
engagement, and chip's gonna share

some incredible insight that'll
help you generate more awareness and

ultimately create more opportunities
that'll help you close more deals.

The other thing I wanted to share, um,
as well before we jump into the episode,

I, I've been speaking about this for the
last couple of weeks, is growth forum.

Our community, we are.

Pump because it's going
completely live in February.

And we have an offer for a great
listeners jump into the show notes.

The link is there if you
haven't already checked it out.

Um, we've got a number of programs
that we are putting out for

free, their masterclass online.

Lots of value.

We've got the prospecting one.

We've also got the.

SEO one for any marketers out there.

Um, and do you wanna check it out?

If you wanna sort of see a
bit more about what SEO's all

about, you can check it out.

We've got some other incredible programs,
but the one that I'm really excited about,

because I get a lot of, you have who,
who've been asking me about how to create

more pipeline in a declining market.

The prospecting program,
it's got a playbook.

It'll teach you the fundamentals
of building personas, ICPs

messaging frameworks, call scripts,
video prospecting, cadences.

It's.

I think it's amazing, right?

So, um, at the moment it's free.

Jump in, check the show notes, click
the link, go and register and check

out the, the program officially goes
live with the community in February,

but just join the wait list to
make sure you get access to that.

So check out this podcast.

You're gonna love it.

Chip's incredible.

He'll provide a different perspective.

And again, as always, it's a
perspective that'll help you think a

little bit differently in your quest
in being the very best you can be.

Chip: Welcome to the.

Thanks for having Luigi.

Great to see you.

Yeah, I'm really, really pumped,

Luigi: man.

I've been enjoying watching
your content, um, online.

I've been enjoying, uh, building a
relationship with you online and it's

great to finally, even though we're
still online, it's kind of take it.

From, from the LinkedIn world
into a, into a virtual world.

And hopefully, um, when I'm in
America, we might be able to find

the time to actually connect offline.

But mate, really excited to have you
on the show, so thanks for coming on.

Chip: Yeah, super excited to be here.

Thanks again for having me.

Yeah.

Well

Luigi: mate, before we get started,
cause we've got a really cool topic,

and I think for me sellers, you know,
sales has changed over the last couple

of years and I think Covid has sped
up and really accelerated some of the

changes as well in our, in our industry.

But before we get into the topic about how
sellers can become, you know, better at

marketing themselves, we'd love to learn
a bit about how you started in the world

Chip: of sales and marketing.

Yeah, absolutely.

Um, so I've really been in
marketing my whole career.

My, uh, the undergrad, I was
in economics major, right?

But I, I think I really resonated with
things that were more people oriented,

you know, so social sciences, statistics
even, you know, so I was, I guess I.

Sort of always sort of a right
brain, left brain marketer,

right, right from the get go.

Mm-hmm.

per personally, yeah.

I'm a musician too.

I've been playing drums
since I was 10 years old.

I've always been musician in bands,
and so that's my artistic side

and, and, uh, my econ I guess is
sort of my, my left brain side.

But, um, so I started out in
a highly analytical marketing

statistician role at a catalog
marketing company called Fingerhut.

Which one?

One point.

You know, but as large as Sears, you
know, in, in the United States, a really

large couple, billion dollar company.

But it was, uh, highly an
analytical approach to marketing.

Um, it was, it was B2C primarily,
but I got into, uh, the online

world in e-commerce with a company
called Digital River in, in 97, and

um, and then into email marketing
with a company called Exact Target.

And that was the bulk of my career.

And we were acquired by Salesforce about
12 years later after scaling the company.

Kinda pretty significantly.

Um, so I've really been now
been in software as a service

marketing for 25 years, Luigi.

Wow.

It's pretty, it's pretty,
it's pretty crazy.

Yeah.

And

Luigi: now in your current role, you
know, your CMO you are leading, leading

a team, you're really trying to.

And, and you're, you are working
in a quite a competitive market,

Chip: right?

Yeah.

There's no, no question.

You know, c CRM is a competitive
market and hundreds, maybe of, of

companies that, that claim to have
some either niche, cr niche crm or,

you know, addressing broad audiences.

But we're, we're definitely a adopt
top player in this space, you know?

And so, uh, obviously most
sales deals were competing with.

Maybe HubSpot, maybe Salesforce is who
we probably see most often, but a lot

of small and mid-size companies leverage
our CRM to, you know, drive leads,

manage the pipeline, things like that.

Mm-hmm.

,
Luigi: and that's really
interesting, right?

Because you know, again, you look at
the names, when you look at CRMs, you've

got, you're right, your sales force.

Um, who I think I just read,
they've ticked over 30.

30 billion in a r r, which
is, which is insane number.

Um, you've got your HubSpots, then you've
got Microsofts, and then you've got, you

know, some of these other players as well.

Um, From a marketing perspective, like
how do you, you know, when you're,

when you're really taking on these
juggernauts of organizations, how do you

go about sort of setting that marketing
plan to really differentiate what

you guys do versus your competition?

I think it

Chip: starts with really
knowing who your customers are.

A and Anthony, uh, Smith,
who was our founder.

, um, you know, he's founded the company
actually in Perth, Australia in

2009, brought it to the states, moved
it, you know, with some investment

in 2012, and really started out
with a phenomenal integration with

QuickBooks Online and Google, right?

So he, he's two of the top products in
both of those app marketplaces adopted by,

you know, SMBs really across the world.

So pretty quickly it was
adopted because of those.

Key integrations by thousands,
tens of thousands of businesses

really in 150 plus countries.

Yeah.

And, you know, and then, yeah, I
guess you, you learn over time, right?

We, we've been really lucky to have so
many different types of companies on

the CRM platform for years and years.

In 2019, we launched our marketing
automation product, and then just

last year we launched a, a customer.

Service, product help desk product,
uh, we call in Insightly service.

Um, and, and so we're, we're solving
problems for multiple industries, right?

And we tend to solve in, in
a way that's more modern than

a typical legacy cloud suite.

Like, like Salesforce at a lower cost.

That's what they, it may, that's
why I was excited about Insightly.

It's, you know, a marketing, uh,
sales, uh, service, you know, app, all

in the same modern platform with one
view of the customer, and it's just

a lot lighter, easier to use way to,
to manage your customer experiences

and so that it's, it's easy to
find the white space for me anyway.

Yes.

Where that fits below what the typical
sales force or other CloudSuite offering

is, there's definitely companies who.

Looking for, you know, a, a, a
flexible, easy to use, easy to adopt

tool for their sales team, for their
marketing team, for the service team.

So what I'm hearing you say

Luigi: is you're very clear
on the, your customer profile.

You're actually really clear on the
type of customers that you wanna serve

Chip: for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Luigi: And I think there's
a perfect segue, right?

Because, um, when you're thinking about
it from a, a sales perspective, and

again, if you're a listener on this
show going, you know, And, and look,

the reality is really simple right now.

Um, inbound lead volumes
we've seen have dropped.

Um, a lot of sales teams are, are
struggling to meet their number.

Um, pipeline coverage is
lower than what it should be.

So there are actually a lot of
things that are happening that are

going against sellers right now.

Yeah.

So, um, and I think one of the
key things that's gonna really

help salespeople moving forward,
especially in the next six to 12.

is their ability to get out into the
market, be proactive and generate

more pipeline for themselves.

And I would love to hear from your
perspective, like if, if you know, from

a sales perspective and what advice
could you give sellers that would

help them become better marketers so
that they can get out there and create

more brand awareness for themselves?

Chip: Yeah, it's a, it's
a great question, Luigi.

Um, I, I think I would start
with how a, a solid marketer

goes to market today, right?

Mm-hmm.

Because it's, it's changed
significantly since, you know,

HubSpot sort of championed inbound
marketing years and years ago.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, I came from the email
space too back, you know, like I

mentioned, I was at exact target, uh,
that we, we required by Salesforce, but.

you know, back then I think it was a
pretty common motion to go out with

your, your pdf, advertise it via email,
advertise it via, via social media,

and somebody would come fill out a form
and download it, and then you would

just, you know, nurture them via email.

Um, and that worked really, really
well for years and years and years.

Um, fewer and fewer people
are filling out forms.

Um, the buying process be is, has
become longer and more complicated.

Often it's involving five or more
people inside of an organization.

Right.

And so, and there's more and
more websites, definitely

in the software space.

There's websites like G2 or Capterra where
I, I can go do, do research on software

and hear what customers say about it.

Um, before I ever buy it.

So, uh, you know, it's just second nature.

The way people buy things now is
much like they, they buy a tv, they

talk to 25 friends, they do some
of their own research, , some, they

might go to Best Buy and see a tv.

They, they do some research
on Amazon or some other review

sites before they select a tv.

They've already been through
most of the buying process.

Right?

Yeah.

Um, and so if you're a marketer in
today's age, You really need to be

number one, really aware of that
journey and all those te steps.

And number two, be aware of the
fact that you have to, um, create

awareness and, and when b, before
you're ever gonna get a sale.

So you can't expect to just interrupt
somebody and get a sale at the

bottom of the funnel immediately.

Today, that relationship
starts 25, 30 steps maybe.

Yeah.

You know, months earlier, potentially.

Right.

Uh, One of the greatest models.

Everybody's familiar
with a marketing funnel?

Yeah.

There's a guy by the name of John
Jan, who's a marketer, wrote, um,

ultimate Marketing Guide, uh, uh, and
I'm blanking on his, his under book,

but he, he's, he's got a marketing,
uh, uh, Is the Boeing pyramid.

It, it's, no, it's, it's a, uh, I can't,
I can't believe, I just can't come up

with hourglass marketing hourglass.

There you go.

ok . Yeah.

But, but the concept is like
basically seven steps and.

The top three are no like trust, right?

Yeah.

If somebody has to know
you, they have to like you.

They have to trust you before you
ever get to further down in the funnel

to be able to actually have them try
your product or buy your product.

And so if you are a marketer today,
you are thinking about that journey.

And now how do I create awareness
so my ideal customer knows who I

am, how do I get them to like me?

And.

And make them believe that I
understand their problem and that

I could, that I know how to fix it,
and then give them some proof points

to prove that I know how to fix it.

Right.

May probably, with some customer
stories, some very specific

examples, um, some review sites,
that, that back up what I'm saying.

And that's the trust piece.

So no, like trust.

You know, before you're ever
gonna get somebody to try or buy.

And so that's me coming a
long a long way around.

To answer your question, Luigi, if
you're a sales rep, you now own more

of that tar top part of the funnel, um,
than you have before, because you're

gonna engage with an organization
where they might have awareness of you.

But you're gonna try to deepen
relationships with multiple

potential stakeholders.

You're gonna have to validate
whatever marketing is in the market.

You know, you're gonna have to also
show how you've solved problems

for people similar, uh, to to
them, whoever you're talking to.

Um, and then provide some proof
points and metrics that show

you can actually do that again.

So, no, like trust.

So how do you do that
when you're a seller?

You have to.

Think in, in terms of a
multi-step journey, right.

That begins with you and
the words that you've used.

Yeah, I love

Luigi: that.

And it's interesting cause you're right
like that, no life trust, you're coming

at it from a marketing perspective.

But we can't progress opportunities
through our pipeline as a seller if they

don't know, like, or trust us either.

Right?

So

Chip: it's fundamental exactly

Luigi: to, to any, both marketing and
sales, which I'm, which I'm, I find

really, and again, I think for, for cause.

And this is where I, I, I was really
excited about this episode and

really excited to talk about the,
the line of sales and marketing.

Because again, you know, when I
first started in this industry, you

know, many, many years ago, there
was a clear sort of crossover.

You know, marketing did
their thing, sales did.

I feel that that line has
now kind of disappeared.

Right.

Um, we'd love to get your insight on this.

So from a, from a marketing and sales
perspective, what has been the biggest

change that you've seen that has impacted
the two orgs and the way in which they

Chip: engage with each other?

Well, I, I think it's
mostly a positive because.

I think most marketing leaders and
most sales leaders now realize that

they're essentially on the same team.

Yeah.

And selling is really a team sport
that involves both of those skills

I talked about, right brain and left
brain, you know, kind of marketing

approaches, analytical, you know,
and also more creative and artistic.

And I think, uh, there's a little
bit of a yin and yang that applies

to sales and marketing as well.

We need each.

. Yes.

And I, I think histor what historically,
what's, how the inbound marketing

myth kind of trained us all, and
maybe it worked for a few years,

was you, the marketers were just
responsible for generating leads, right?

Yeah.

We just had to generate leads and
we needed to get email addresses and

contact information and give 'em to
the sales team, and our job was done.

You know?

So, you know, we've already proven it.

That's how we're counting our.

We've given you 2000 leads if you
guys don't follow up on 'em and

say it's your problem, basically.

Yeah.

And so it, it was, that's, and
that, but that model worked for

people, you know, actually for a
period of time maybe that worked.

Um, and I think sales, honestly,
historically was used to, used to that.

Right.

And, and maybe they didn't
know a different way.

So that didn't seem odd to them either.

But I think that started to break
down right as buying habits changed.

Social really emerged, uh, as um,
you know, kind of that social proof

emerged as a critical component
of being able to buy something,

especially a higher price product.

And so what's changed for me is that
partnership, you know, is sales and

marketing, working together, marketing
thinking further down funnel rather

than just taking responsibility for.

How many people like us on Facebook,
you know, , um, or how many leads

we're getting, but vanity metrics, but
truly thinking about the full funnel.

Who am I talking to?

Where am I talking to?

To them?

Are the people that I'm talking
to in that location actually

converting to up sales opportunities?

Yeah.

And to closed one business.

Right.

And so I think.

An evolved marketer, if you will, is
thinking with that full funnel approach.

Um, and, and they're partnered with sales
leaders, uh, to think that way too, right?

And so, and, and hold
them accountable, frankly.

So if you're just, if you're still just,
uh, running a webinar, doing a download,

and then shipping that lead over to.

Your sales team as a marketer, you're,
you're not doing what you need to do.

Yeah.

Um, because you haven't proven any
level of true engagement from the buyer.

That's really interesting.

Right.

Luigi: Actually, up, you said there,
pick up the creativity piece in moment.

I think that's really important
as modern seller today.

But I mean, you see this all the time
because you are, you are, you are

working in the role of marketing.

How you know, if you're a
seller, and you wanted to get

more from the marketing team.

You wanted to get more insight to be
able to share with their prospects and

customers, like what advice would you
give sellers so that they can go to

marketing and ask the right questions?

How?

Look, I suppose I'm going to with
this question, and I don't wanna

confuse you or confuse myself, but
I, I often see salespeople don't

leverage their marketing teams.

They're out there, they're doing
things, but they're not leveraging,

they're not engaging with their
marketing team to become more

educated, to get more information.

Like what advice can you give sellers
so that they can go and engage

with their marketing department so
that they can provide that better

experience and journey for their

Chip: buyers?

So, I mean, f first of all, i, I,
for sales leaders certainly, or, or,

or rev ops folks that, that were,
are working, um, in the business.

Get a weekly meeting or a twice weekly
meeting on the calendar with mar

marketing, right Where, where you're
sharing feedback from the frontline

teams that are talking to customers and
providing that feedback to marketing.

I think that enough of the feedback
loop doesn't really happen unless

you're really, really proactive
about creating the opportunity

and adding it as an agenda item.

Like let's talk about the.

You know, the campaign that, that we did
last month that you called on for the last

three weeks, what are you learning, right?

Um, how is our message resonating?

When it, why is it, why is it not?

How do we, you know, adjust?

So certainly if you're a frontline
salesperson, Raise your hand and,

and, and say what's working and
what's not working, because marketing

needs that feedback loop to Yeah.

To help you optimize down funnel.

So I think the third thing, or see the
second thing is, um, update the crm.

, I mean, because, because that data is what
then power, you know, tells marketing.

Um, What's working and
what's not, you know?

Uh, um, and, you know, just to
ensure that at least the attribution

is right for, for things that, you
know, coming, coming down funnel.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, I don't know.

Those, those are two things that
come top of, top of mind, Luigi,

Luigi: because I found, I, I actually
found a major shift in my career

when I actually was thrown into a
marketing role when I really didn't

know anything about marketing.

And for me at that time, , I felt
like I was a fish out of water, but it

was probably one of the biggest, um,
it was a key milestone in my career

chip because it gave me a different
view and on the customer, I always

looked at it from a sales view, right?

And so again, I became a
better sales professional.

because I looked at it
from a marketing lens.

Yeah.

Um, and it completely
changed my viewpoint on it.

And then this is again, why I wanted to
sort of share a little bit about what

you do and, and, and really get sellers
just thinking a little bit differently.

And something that you said
earlier, which I think is really

important, is that creativity piece.

Like, you know, we often talk about
marketing is, you know, the people

that are out there doing creative
things to trigger their buyer.

And then I often see
the sales conversation.

There's no emotion to it.

There's no energy to it,
there's no personality.

Like even after I was, I was doing a
call calibration session yesterday, and

I'm like, so you had a great meeting,
a discovery call, and then look at

your email, like your email is written.

It, it's, it's so professional.

There's no emotion in it.

Like, like where's the actual enthusiasm?

Like what about creativity?

Like, Again, talk to me about
why creativity matters, not just

in the marketing part of part of
the funnel, but also as buyers

progress, why we need to keep being

Chip: creative.

There's, uh, well, creativity
is human number one, right?

I, I think that you're in a very,
most companies now are a very

competitive marketplace and.

People get at, you know, people
get a lot of advertising.

People still get a lot
of spam in their inbox.

They get even pick the channel there.

There's, there's plenty of
noise in almost every channel.

And the only thing that stands
out are the things that seem truly

personalized to you, relevant
to you, somehow engaging to you.

And the only way you're no gonna know as
a seller, whether or not you're hitting

the mark is, is it working or not?

So you have to test a lot of things.

You have to be.

. And so that's definitely what
I, I got used to, especially

in the BDC catalog realm.

You know, be because.

In B2B mar marketers for a while,
it has been easy because you just

bring in the leads and then the sales
will, cl sales team will close it.

Right.

Whereas if you're a B2C marketer,
you're responsible for selling it.

Right.

They, they have, you have to, you know,
you have to come up with a creative

idea if it's e-commerce mm-hmm.

You have to come up with a
creative banner ad that gets 'em

to click and get some to buy.

Right now there's, there is no
lead and there's no formal, right?

And so the only way you're
gonna know if you're doing well

is your AB testing constantly.

And even in my job now, we just
updated, improved some of our.

Landing pages for the
ads that we're running.

And we two Xed our, you know,
number of demo requests that we're

getting by creative approaches to
optimizing where, where the people

are engaging and learning about the
offering and learning about the brand.

And I think that's, that kind
of testing is maybe second

nature to marketers, you know?

Mm-hmm.

and maybe, you know, maybe it's a
new concept, I think a little bit to,

to some selling people, salespeople.

You know, sort of the AB testing
approach, the constantly thinking

about, okay, how do I shift the message?

How do I get really personal,
really engaging for this

individual audience or person?

Yeah.

Well, this is good.

Luigi: I think, and again, I'm like,
If a look at the notes that Alison

listener should be taking, there's
actually a couple of key takeaways

here that you're talking about, right?

Because I think, again, you're the
thing from a marketing a b testing, like

sellers need to be doing that as well.

You know, if they're outreach messages,
if they're looking at, they've gotta be

looking at what subject lines are working.

You know what?

Emails are no question performing
better than others because again,

That's something that's, that's
quite an important part of our role.

Now, this is where I wanna flip it, right?

Because as a CMO, you'd obviously be on
the receiving end of a lot of outreach.

Chip: Yeah.

Yeah.

Luigi: Outta all the outreach you get.

What's the type of
outreach that you respond

Chip: to?

I do get a lot of outreach.

You're right.

And the, the, the, the types
of things that I respond to.

I, I can tell that there
was time taken, you know?

Yeah.

So it's a, it's, it's
a personalized message.

It's often a video, uh,
that's customized for me.

Maybe where they use my first
name, they might show my website.

They might, they might clearly
demonstrate that they understand the

problem that I'm trying to solve.

Um, you know, and, and also there's
like an authentic try at engaging

with me potentially from something
I've written about or something that

I've posted about, uh, on social,
um, without it seem sort of seem.

You know, like they just wouldn't grab
something, you know, . But actually

something that was sort of recent maybe
that I've written that was highly rel

relevant to what they're talking about.

Yeah.

So, um, so I actually have, you know,
re responded to people when it, when

it seems like they're taking the
time to engage with me as a human.

I'll at least tell them,
no, I'm not interested.

You know, reach back in six months or
something, rather than just ignoring them.

Right.

But I, I'm more likely to ignore 'em if it
feels like they're phoning it in or they

don't know that I work for a CRM company
or, you know, they, they don't, they

don't know, you know, they don't know.

Clear, easy to find details
that if they did some research,

they would learn about me.

Okay.

So showing you

Luigi: that they know you
via doing some research.

Leveraging some sort of content
that again, shows them that they've

taken the time to do the research.

Um, and how many, you mentioned video,
and I've been asking a lot of people this.

Out of all the outreach messages
that you get, how many, like what

percentage has a video in it?

Chip: Maybe 10%.

Yeah.

It's, it's still, it's still
lower than I would anticipate.

Yeah.

Includes a video.

And you know

Luigi: what?

That's on the money.

That's why I, I ask people this every
day and I ask sellers the same question.

Um, and you, you're right.

It's about 10% of people say, I'm
sending video, and 10% of the the buyers

are saying, mate, I'm getting video.

Which is interesting cause that's
a, that's a key way to stand out.

In, in your inbox.

It,

Chip: it's, yeah.

It's, it's, it's a key way to, to
show that you're human too, frankly.

Right?

Yeah.

I mean, it, it, it's, um, I think it was
whiskey I thought had a great campaign.

I maybe you've seen it too, Luigi,
where not, not only were they, was

there a sort of a marketing message.

From the, the sales rep, there
was also sort of a pre-recorded,

Hey, here's who I am, right?

Yeah.

So I like to surf and I like to
hike and this is where I live.

And sort of just like a little
personal intro, introduction to the

sales rep, which I thought was really
unique because it just personalized

the other end of the conversation
in this two-dimensional world.

It's kind of nice.

And so just

Luigi: going back on that,
right, because you mention.

About the problem again, with all
the outreach that you're getting, e,

even though you are not, even though
you might not be in the market to buy

something, if they did talk about a
problem that you were experienced,

would you be open to discussing.

That problem with somebody if they,
if they spent the time to actually

give you a strong point of view around

Chip: that problem.

Yeah.

I, I think when somebody approaches you,
um, and Doug Landis and I talked about

this on our, on our show closing time,
but when they, when they approach you with

you, with a sort of a hypothesis Sure.

For understanding your business, not
only, not only they, they understand your.

, you know, they sort of can demonstrate
it, you know, with, with, Hey, I

think you might be experiencing
this kind of thing, right?

Because I'm talking to other
customers in their, in your same

industry that are experiencing that.

Is that what you're seeing?

Because if so, then you know, this
is the types of activities you

might want to consider taking.

And it, and it, and it's not, it doesn't
feel like a higher pressure sales at all

in that case because it's, it's, they're.

They're coming your direction.

Yeah.

To, to just make a hypo hypothesis
and educate a guess about what

you might be experiencing.

And most that draws most people out.

Yeah.

I am experiencing that.

And that's interesting that you brought
that up because X, y, and Z detail, right.

That then you can build on.

And so if somebody

Luigi: does leverage that really strong
value hypothesis around a problem that

you might be experiencing, And then
that could trigger you to say, yeah,

I'm looking to learn a bit more from

Chip: this.

Yeah.

It, it warms you up.

I just had a conversation not too long
ago that was similar to this where

it was a unique piece of software
that I'm not in the market for right

now specifically, but they clearly
understood a portion of my business.

Yeah.

And.

How I might be able to optimize it
and why they built their software

entirely around solving that problem.

Yeah.

And so it's like, okay, well I'm
not interested now, but you clearly

understand that problem, you know,
and, you know, let's talk again.

So I think that that demonstration
of expertise, you can't,

yeah, you can't fake, right?

You can't fake, you know, and you can't,
you can't, you can't fake the, the

informed, the informed, educated guess.

Luigi: And are all your
purchasers that you.

, are they all budgeted purchases
or do you, do you in some cases,

have to go and create a budget
and, and develop a business case

to give access to money that you

Chip: didn't put in the budget initially?

Yeah.

I, I, they tend to be
budgeted in quarter for me.

Right.

Um, but didn't necessarily
exist when the year started

Luigi: Okay.

So throughout the year you've
gone, hang on, we've got

something we need to maybe go.

You know, make that budget
available this quarter.

Chip: Exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Luigi: And what's your
process around doing that?

Like, is it a, you've gotta see consensus
from your wider team, or do you own that?

Do you control that entirely
within your, your, your,

Chip: um, well, I mean, clearly as a cmo
I own, uh, a marketing budget, but that,

that covers, covers people, covers, tech
covers content covers agencies, and then

covers, you know, actual demand gen.

And so, . I think if my CEO is choosing
it wouldn't go entirely to demand gen,

maybe . Um, but, but uh, you know,
and so, so I've, I have to create an

informed decision anytime I'm kind of
recommending in a budget change, right?

You know, that hey, here's what, here's
what I'm gonna spend, what I wanna spend

money on next quarter, and here's how
I think it's gonna impact the business.

Yeah.

This

Luigi: is, this is great.

Cause you mentioned earlier that there's
more people involved in the buying

committee, so, And I love how, I love
where we've gone with this podcast, um,

chip because, you know, we've, we've
spoken a bit about what sellers can do

to create more awareness for themselves
in the market and, and, and, and

really being clear on who they serve.

Um, going through those process of
no like, and trust, um, engaging

with their marketing team so
that they can share intel that.

and, and vice versa, right?

Having more, having a better
line of communication between the

department is only gonna help, help
strengthen, um, the value proposition

they're taking it to market.

And I absolutely love the fact that we've
migrated to a, from a buyer's perspective,

um, how you are buying, how you are
engaging with outreach, and how the fact

that there is still a lot of people not.

You know, the basics of personalizing
and bringing their authentic self.

So I think this has been a great
episode where, you know, if you're

listening to this, there's probably
been a lot of key takeaways, but before

we let you go, um, where's the best
place for our listeners to find and

Chip: engage with you?

Well, you, you can find me on,
on LinkedIn is probably the

best place to engage with me.

Right.

Personally is, is probably on LinkedIn.

I do tweet occasionally at CE House.

Yeah.

And then, You know, obviously
you can find and learn more about

it in insightly insightly.com.

Awesome.

And

Luigi: for those that are gonna
outbound to check out what will be the

biggest Sales rock show going around,
um, in Insightly, we'll be there,

Chip: right Chip?

Yeah.

We're really excited
about going to outbound.

I think much like you, you, when we
started this conversation, you, you

had just been to an in-person event.

I feel like everybody's really,
really hungry to engage people again.

And, uh, so we have a
couple events coming up.

In September one on the, the west
coast, one on the East coast, and

out outbound is one of them as
well, we're really excited about.

So if you are at outbound,
please, uh, we're, we're looking

forward to connecting with you.

Yeah.

Awesome,

Luigi: Jim.

Thanks for the content that
you put out there, mate.

Um, and really

Chip: appreciate your time today, Luigi.

Thank you.

Yeah, I can't wait to do it again.

And, and you have to
join me on my show, Mike.

Luigi: You, you have a time.

Chip: I'll be there, . Sounds good.

Yeah, sounds great.