How to Sell Podcast: Make How You Sell, Why You Win

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Kyle: Growth

Forum Production,

Luigi: this is the
Skalable Growth Podcast.

I'm your host, Luigi

Prestinenzi, and each week we will go on a

journey.

A journey that will inspire you.

Motivate you

and help you be the very best you can be.

Our focus will be on mindset,
tactics, and the strategies that

will enable you to create more
opportunities and win more deals.

Welcome to another episode
of the Scalable Growth

Podcast.

I'm pumped, honored and excited that

you have joined us for will
be an incredible episode.

Now, for all of our longtime
listeners, just wanna say thanks.

I'll do this every week because
I'm very grateful for the fact

that you show up each and every
week to support us in our quest in

helping sales professionals
be the very best they

can be.

And if you're a first
time listener, welcome.

Really excited that you've
decided to check our podcast out.

We hope you take some
value away and you come.

Each and every week.

Now, this week we

are really privileged

to have another practitioner.

In our last episode we had Ryan talk
about the outreach process and how you

can develop an outreach strategy and
gave a bit more, a bit of a different

point of view around getting a no and
getting some form of resistance means

as part of your outreach strategy.

So if you haven't checked that out,
go back, check that episode out.

Cause there's a lot of great value in
that, especially because Ryan is an

absolute practitioner of what he does.

And this week we have another
practitioner, Cole us, a

incredible, incredible operator.

Has worked across a range of
different roles in the sales arena.

And what I love about
this particular episode

is you really hear Kyle

is quite pragmatic in his approach.

He's quite thoughtful and he will bring
a level of thinking that we all need

to have when it comes to prospecting,
especially in a tougher market.

So the climate, as we know
back end of 2022 got really

tough for a lot of sellers.

It actually was quite brutal
for, for a lot of sellers and.

2023, it is gonna be another
difficult period of time.

And, and this is where we
need to bring more structure.

We need to bring, um, more process,
we need to be more disciplined in

the way that we structure our deal.

So this is gonna be a great episode.

There'll be a lot of learning.

Also, I mentioned in LinkedIn last
week, our prospecting program.

We have created an incredible masterclass.

It's got frameworks, it's got a
playbook, it's got some tools,

it's got online sessions.

It's completely self-paced when you
join the Growth Forum community, the

link is in the show notes jump on.

It's absolutely free to join.

We're giving 45 days free to join.

You can join and you'll get
access to that particular program

that goes live in February.

And there's a whole bunch of
other programs that go live Growth

Forum efficiently launches in
February, and it's gonna be amazing.

We've got incredible thought.

Jumping on board to provide value content
sessions to help you on your journey

on being the very best you can be.

So really, really excited
about that program.

Take advantage of it while, because
at the moment it's completely free.

It will become part of our more of our
premium, uh, offering down the track.

But at the moment, it's completely free.

But for now, check out this episode.

I hope you love.

Let me know, DM me, send me a note
what you think of this episode.

Also, reach out to me and let me know what
are some of the subjects and topics you

wanna hear from this year so that I can
go out and get the guests and, and put

this content together because I do this
to help you be the very best you can be.

Kyle: Welcome to the show, Kyle.

Thanks, Luigi.

Good to be here.

Yeah, man.

Excited,

Luigi: excited to have you on.

Um, to talk about a real, I think of a
really cool topic for many sellers that

are, are probably, you know, in, in, in
the deals, working on deals and sometimes

thinking why do certain things happen.

And so really excited to talk about that
wholesale psychology and bike psychology.

But, uh, before we get into today's
topic, we'd love to just have,

uh, a little intro from you, mate.

, how you started in sales and, and why
this topic, why this topic is something

that you are so passionate about.

Yeah, you bet.

Kyle: So, I, uh, I got
into sales by accident.

I, I thought I was gonna go into
consulting, did an internship

for consulting and I hated it.

And so I was at a, in a bit
of a panic as I finished up

my, my undergraduate studies.

, I, I thought about extending
college, thought about doing a

computer science degree instead.

Mm-hmm.

, when Qualtrics reached out to me for an
opportunity development role, I, I had no

idea what opportunity development meant,
but I went in for the interview process.

I fell in love with the
company and what they were, the

division they were building.

When they told me it was a sales role, I
literally told one of the co-founders of

Qualtrics, I, I don't want to do sales.

And he said, it's fine, we'll start you
in sales and then you can change later.

You'll just make less money.

I was like, okay, that's fine.

So I, I started in sales, started as
a, an sdr is what they, is what it was.

They called it opt dev, but it
was an SDR role and I've, uh, fell

in love with sales and I've, I've
been there, been there ever since.

Right.

I've been in pretty much every sales role.

Uh, sdr ae, frontline
leader, second line leader.

The, the reason why psychology stands
out to me is I feel like in sales we

are so focused on how we do things.

Yeah, we're focused on our sales
process, how we perceive our product.

What we want to accomplish in sales calls.

And very rarely do we think
about what the buyer is feeling,

experiencing, even hearing.

I think my biggest aha moment was
doing like a demonstration and I would

show the critical functionality and I
thought I was showing it effectively.

I would move on and 10 minutes later
the buyer would say, Hey, Kyle,

do you offer this functionality?

And I'm like, I, I showed that
to you like five minutes ago.

And that's the first time that
I realized that what the seller.

What the seller does is not always what
the buyer perceives and buyer hears.

Yeah.

And so I began thinking a lot more
about the buyer psychology and

how to adapt to what they need.

Luigi: Yeah.

It's an interesting concept, right.

And I'm, I'm actually really excited
to dive into this, into this particular

topic and really break it down by
the different stages of the funnel.

But before I go there, right, I
mean, this is an incredible career

that you've, you've had so far.

Um, starting off as an sdr, working
right up into that VP of sales.

, just tell us a a little bit about what
you needed to go through from when you,

when you talk about psychology, what
were some of the mental shifts that you

needed to TA to make as you change roles?

Right, because often, you
know, sitting in top of funnel.

and then moving into ae it, it
can be a bit of, a bit of a shock.

Right.

And then going from AE to
leading, you know, again, it

changes the dynamic of the role.

Just talk to us a little bit about how
you, you made that, tho those changes.

Kyle: some I made, well some, I, I screwed
up initially, but I think the, the mental.

That I've had to continue to make
through every role is that of ownership.

Yeah.

Where I, I, I can't sit back
and compare myself to others.

Say, well, that person's having success
because they're lucky, or they have

a better team or better territory.

I had to learn on my career that
I am responsible for my outcomes.

I can take what I am
given and make the most.

And as long as I consistently
make the most of what I'm

given, good things happen.

Not always at the speed that I might
like, but I found that as I stopped

comparing myself to what others were
doing and how they were having success

and focus more on improving myself
and learning, I was able to adapt

to each new role much, much faster.

Luigi: Mate, that's awesome.

The reason why I was a bit of a gap.

I actually took some
notes, , um, and I love that.

I love that the, the way in which you
break that down, right, because I think.

And this is my opinion through my
own career and through the lens that

I've looked at things, is that the
ownership, the risk, being responsible,

consistent, stop comparing, like
all the things that you talk about,

that's the mindset component, right?

That's that's the what we
build our foundation on, and

we're gonna make mistakes.

That's one thing that's
guaranteed in our career, right?

In sales mistakes will happen.

We're not perfect.

We can't control many things, but what
I loved about what you, you know, spoke

about is controlling what you can control.

Um, so I think that's an awesome way
for us to now move into the whole

psychology of the sales process, right?

So when we think about this, so now
that we've, we've sort of framed

up the importance of having, um,
that mindset and controlling what

we can control, let's talk about.

the buyer's concerns when it
comes to the sales process and we

know, you know, HubSpot revealed
a pretty interesting report circa

60% of buyers don't trust sellers.

So there's a bit of a trust gap already.

Yeah.

Um, I think it's probably getting
worse if you surveyed them

now with all the automation.

Um, it's funny, I saw a post from somebody
on LinkedIn yesterday about a message

they got and I got the exactly the same
message in my inbox and my LinkedIn.

, the automation is, is out there
and it's, it's happening a lot.

So it's creating further, you
know, barriers of distrust.

But let's talk a little bit
about that whole, you know, what

concerns do buyers have early in
the sales process that prevents us

from even having a conversation?

Yeah, I,

Kyle: it's, uh, a, a
rep thinks they have 30.

To go into a discovery conversation to
extract understanding of the buyer and

convince them to evaluate their solution.

What they don't know is really the
buyer's gonna give 'em about probably

two to three minutes before they decide
whether they're going to engage in the

conversation or mentally check out from
the conversation what the buyer is afraid.

The buyer's afraid that the
rep doesn't know their role,

doesn't know their industry.

They're gonna come in uneducated and
they're not going to be able to add value.

They're just going to be throwing mud at
the wall hoping that something sticks.

Yeah.

They are afraid that they're
going to spend 30 minutes

answering questions from a rep.

The rep is going to extract value,
extract value, extract value, and

then the call is gonna end with
the AE saying, Hey, I got all that.

I.

Let's take an hour next week and I'll tell
you all the things that you want to know.

And the buyer is like, I, I still
don't know if you can help me.

So that, that's a waste of my time.

And then I think the other big
fear that a buyer has is that

the, the burden of evaluation is
going to fall exclusively on them.

Let me explain that.

Mm-hmm.

, they feel like whether there's a good fit
or not, the AE is going to try to sell.

, even if their solution is not
going to help the buyer, they're

still gonna try to force a sell.

So they have this pressure that
they need to figure out as quickly

as possible, cut through the BS and
figure out, can this actually help me?

Which is pretty overwhelming.

Mm-hmm.

, because they're not an expert in the
solution, the seller's providing.

, but they feel like they're
going to have to figure out on

their own if it's a good fit.

Yeah.

Because a seller's gonna force it through.

Luigi: And you, you've raised a
couple of things there, right.

Which I think we need to, we need
to jump on because I think the first

component of what you've raised is we
as sellers are going into a discovery.

Thinking we're the one doing a
discovery, but in fact it's both

parties are doing a discovery, right?

Because they are also looking at us
thinking, is this something as you said,

that can help us first and foremost?

And the second component to what
you've just discussed is you are right.

That's where the distrust comes
because the, the buyer's thinking

regardless whether this fits me or
not, this guy or this girl's gonna try.

sell this to me.

Yeah.

And this is where I think the mindset,
and I would love to get your take on

this, on successful deals that you've
been able to, to guide and, and nurture

and educate, but I always see this
as that consultative role, right?

My role is not to sell you something.

My role is to help you understand and
make sense, and validate and evaluate

and bring all the path together.

to show that this is something that
would help you achieve your outcome.

Right.

So in some of the deals that you've been
managing, and, and again, if we go to

that, that earlier stage, how do you
frame up with your prospects so that

they see you as the consultant versus
see you as the person that's just trying

to sell or push a product to them?

Yeah.

Kyle: It, it starts with how
we're gonna get their attention

right from the, the start.

Yep.

And I have found, For me, the best way to
get their attention and show credibility

and build trust is to come to the
discovery with a hypothesis of value.

Mm-hmm.

that is specific to who they are as
a professional and to their industry.

And so what's the whole idea by Kevin
and say, Hey, the reason why I actually

wanted to have this conversation is I'm
pretty confident that we can help you.

Drive these three outcomes that I'm
pretty sure you care about based

on who you are in your industry.

Is that a value to you?

I, I'm asking right from the
beginning like, Hey, this, my solution

is gonna drive those outcomes.

If that's not valuable to you, let's
end the call now cuz there's no

point in talking if I have the right
understanding of who they are as a

professional, their industry, and our so.

My hypothesis of value is
almost always relatively close

to what they care most about.

Luigi: Yeah.

But you, this is awesome, right?

But you've done that research year,
you've researched your persona,

you've researched the KPIs, you
know what's important to them.

And you are not taking a one size
fits all approach and you're also

segmenting your market, right?

So you're saying this is what's
important for this persona, this is

what's important for that, and I'm
gonna change my hypothesis of value

so that it actually matches the
person that I'm talking to, right?

Kyle: Correct.

Yeah.

And this is where having to their, their
fear of they don't know who I am as a

professional, they're gonna waste my time.

I put that fear away because my
hypothesis of value is in line

with what I know they care about.

And don't, don't get
it, don't get it wrong.

If you're listening to this, it
doesn't mean I'm saying, Hey,

I am, I know I can help you.

I know I have the right solution.

It's, Hey, I think these
are things you care about.

Am I.

Yeah.

I'm confident we could
help you drive those.

The point of this conversation today is
to help us align together if we actually

can help you and get enough of your
interest to continue the conversation.

So I can prove it to you.

Yeah.

In further calls

Luigi: and, but, but you are doing,
and just maybe cr but you're not

just entering that first call
with just the ICP and the persona.

You're doing some research.

Absolutely.

And and what are some of the
things that you're looking for?

What are some of the attributes
that you're looking for to validate?

Your hypothesis and say, this
is why I think this will help.

Yeah.

Kyle: So, uh, it, it can arrange based
on the account and the buyer, right?

If it's an executive buyer,
before I'm on a call with a

VP or a C level, I sure hope.

I've had conversations across
their org to understand systems

in place, priorities they have.

So I already have some insight
into their specific company.

If it's not that senior, I'm able to
extract things from their LinkedIn.

I can look at job descriptions for their
role or similar roles of the company.

And then I can also just look at how we
help similar types of customers within

our own case study portfolio, right?

All of these pieces of, of insight
can help me develop that hypothesis.

And again, it doesn't have to be exact,
but it needs to be directionally accurate.

Uh, I, I've often seen calls with
reps that aren't prepared with this.

They go in, they don't have a hypothesis.

They begin asking questions and
the buyer goes, hold on you.

You asked me for this call.

Just tell me what you do.

Yeah, just tell me what you do.

And the rep's like, well, before
I can tell you that I need to

better understand your role.

And they're like, I.

If you don't, if you have no
idea how you can help me, why'd

you even ask for the time?

Yeah.

Luigi: And you know what, that's, again,
this is a bit of a smack in the face

for us because we, we, there was a study
done by Vanillas Soft that actually,

and, and that actually they, they survey
over, I think 2000 senior leaders.

And the, and the results were really,
really, you know, right there.

Uh, 89% of 'em said, if you reach
out to us, we expect you to know

our industry, know our problem.

Right, and know us.

We are not, we, we don't
have time to educate you on

what you should already know.

So I think that's really
interesting and, and you're right.

If that structure of that conversation,
um, can't be about me finding out

what I should already know about you,
it doesn't position us in the way

that they see us as a consultant.

, it positions us in a way that they're
like, this person's wasting my time.

How do you set that agenda though, in
that, in that initial conversation,

so they're very clear on.

what's gonna be covered.

Yeah.

Kyle: So the way I set the agenda,
I prefer to call it an objective.

Yeah.

Because the buyer doesn't
care what we're going to do.

They care what we're, what
they're gonna get out of it.

Yeah.

And so I'll say something like, Hey, by
the end of this call, I am planning to

tell you specifically how we can help you.

So if I'm selling clarity, To a sales
leader, it's like, Hey, by the end of this

call, I'm going to help you understand
how, how you can improve your forecasting

at the region, team and rep level, while
also understanding which deals should be

flagged for your attention so you can go
drive an increased win rate on key deals.

Before I can break down specifically
how we can help in those areas, I

need to better understand your role as
it relates to how you're forecasting

at the company region team levels.

And also understand how you are
servicing key deals to dive in deeper.

Can we take a few minutes to add
an into that before I wrap up

with how I think we can help you?

That way they understand.

I, I want to drive towards
an outcome they care about.

I know a VP of sales cares
about all those things.

If they don't Yeah, I don't have a
solution for them anyway, so the call

is over, but now they understand why I'm
going to be asked in specific question.

To lead me to the specific
outcomes of how we can help them.

Yeah,

Luigi: okay.

Yeah.

Well, it's clear, right?

You're putting the, what's in it for me?

You're making it very clear
on the outcomes that you're

looking to achieve from the call.

And if that's important to them,
then you've got alignment and

you move into the conversation.

So I think that's fantastic.

Right.

Um, so also you, you, you talk a
little bit about empowering, empowering

the know, , why is that important
earlier in the sales process?

So, going

Kyle: back to the psychology piece,
uh, buyers I think are afraid of

salespeople because their assumption is
the salesperson is going to make a deal.

Yeah.

Whether or not it isn't
the buyer's best interest.

So when I empower the no, and what
I mean by that is at the end of the

call, end discovery is, Hey, uh, Mr.

And Mrs.

VP of Sales, here is how I think
I can help you forecast better.

Here's how we're gonna
help you win more deals.

, is this worth your time
to further evaluate?

Yeah, because if we go through
a full sales cycle, that's

what I'm gonna help you do.

Yeah.

If that's not valuable to you, let's
stop the conversation right now

and get you back to your schedule.

I'm making it really clear to the buyer
from the onset that if they're not

really confident that this is likely a
good fit, it's not worth my time either.

Mm-hmm.

, I don't want to go chase a bad.

and so empowerment to know early
helps them feel like, Hey, this

person wants to sell a good deal.

If it makes sense for both sides, yeah.

They're not going to try to force
a, a second medium just to hit

a k p I just to Good enough.

Yeah.

And just to keep chasing
opportunity down the

Luigi: final.

Yeah.

This is good.

This is good.

So you're not qualifying them out.

What you are doing, you're seeking
an understanding of is, is this a

problem that they would like to.

understand further.

Right.

And see if it's something
that you can help them solve.

Kyle: Yeah.

And giving them a really comfortable
way to say, you know what?

This isn't really a
priority for me right now.

Yeah.

Because honestly, if it's not a priority
for them right now, there's plenty of

companies that it is a priority for.

I'd rather go spend my time there.

Yeah.

Luigi: Can I challenge
you on that a little bit?

So if they say it's not a priority,
but they haven't actually done a

proper evaluation on the problem.

to determine is it something that
should be a priority, that they

should build a project around?

Are you limiting opportunities
in your pipeline or.

Do you kind of un ask a few more
questions before saying yes?

Maybe You said it's not a
priority, but this is, let's

put this to the side for now.

Yeah.

Kyle: So by the end of the first discovery
conversation, when I'm giving the, the

outs empowering the, no, yeah, I should
have enough to take it from the hypothesis

of value, which is more generic.

To a value proposition.

So it's, Hey, now I understand
how you're forecasting.

I understand that right now, the way
that you're identifying deals to dive

deeper into is you're just, you're
just sorting biggest deal to smallest,

and you start at the biggest, however.

I've explained, we've learned together
that there's often deals that fall

through the cracks that are winnable,
meaningful opportunities that never

get to your attention because they fall
not in your top five biggest deals.

Mm-hmm.

We've identified together
that probably is a problem.

We've validated that.

So now my value proposition is, hey,
now I know that you have a problem

identifying the right deals to focus on.

Yeah.

I know you're having a hard time
forecasting with new leaders because

they have different methodologies.

If we were to keep talking about this
more, I'd be helping you better understand

specifically how we are going to be
able to help you solve those problems.

Yeah.

Is this a big enough problem
for you to continue to solve?

So we've had enough of a
conversation at that point.

Yeah.

To validate the problem.

And honestly, again, like if they're
at that point, if they're still not

completely sold on it, unless it's a dream
account and dream buyer, my time is better

served to go find people that agree.

It's a.

worth solving.

Yeah.

So

Luigi: again, it comes
back to the mindset, right?

I actually love what you're talking
about and the mindset that you

bring in is, it's, it's, it's
not a mindset of scarcity, right?

You're going, you know what?

I've got other opportunity
to work on as well.

And if, if they haven't confirmed that
this is a problem that's worth solving or

investigating further, I'm gonna move on.

So I think that's fantastic.

So mate, we've covered,
we've covered top of funnel.

. Um, so now we've gone into that discovery.

We've, we, we, we, we've
spoke, we've spoken about it.

They've, they've said, yes,
this is something that we wanna,

we wanna investigate, right?

So that you've got
through that first gate.

Um, now we go into the demo, right?

Um, talk to us a bit about
why the demo can be batshit

boring for our prospects and.

, why a lot of deals kind of fall down
during this stage of the process.

Kyle: Yeah.

So if you, if you're, uh, if you're
listening to this podcast right

now and you can pause it, pause
it real fast, , and go, go look

at your competitor's websites.

Go look at two or three of your
biggest competitor's websites.

, and they're probably gonna look
almost exactly the same as yours.

the same outcomes, the same
verbiage, similar little graphs

or screenshots of products.

they're also number one
in the space, right?

Yeah.

It's all, it's all the same.

And so the second that a seller, Pulls
up their slide deck and the first

slide is, here's all of our customers.

Yeah.

Or here's the awards that we've won.

Here's our revenue.

The buyers like, I've seen this before,
and now they're right back to email.

They're back to Slack because to them,
just like the websites all look the same.

, so does the presentation.

Mm-hmm.

, and then reps will usually spend 80%
of a presentation covering table stakes

functionality that everybody offers.

The reason they do that is this
table stakes because it's required.

Buyers need it to function, but they
spend all their time on it into the buyer.

They're like, yeah, this looks exactly
the same as competitor A, competitor B.

And so what's boring?

Because it's the.

, right?

Luigi: Yeah.

Which is interesting, right?

Because you're absolutely right when you
look at it from Fay, and then when you

are looking at, at it from the buyer's
perspective, and they ha you know, they

start evaluating, it's making, it's
making it harder for them to arrive at

a point of decision as well, because
they're not able to differentiate.

They're looking at things,
and the main thing that'll

differentiate is the price, right?

So it makes it harder for the buyer,
makes it even harder for the seller.

if, if everybody's the same, how do
we overcome that and move outta the CF

sameness and actually move into a place
where we can differentiate the demo

that allows the buyer to see things
differently, but it allows the seller to

differentiate themselves in the process.

Yeah,

Kyle: so rule rule number one, and
this is actually hard to do because it

requires really a good discovery, but
you should demonstrate your product.

exactly how your buyer would use it
if you were to give them access today.

If you can't answer the, if, if, if,
if you can't answer the question, how

would your buyer use your product?

If we gave them free access right
now, then you're gonna have a

hard time doing a compelling demo.

So that's, that's 0.1.

Show them how they would use it.

Don't give them the product tour.

Yes.

The second piece is I like to
set really clear guardrail.

Around what I'm showing.

So when I'm showing the table stakes
functionality, I'm calling out.

Look, I know everybody has this.

I just wanted to quickly show
it to you so you know we have it

too because you're gonna need it.

But I want about 20% on my demo
to be table stakes functionality.

, and then I want 80% to be on the
two or three primary differentiators

that matter to the customer.

So when I get to the differentiators,
say, this is, this is different.

And there's two ways to be different.

You can be different by having
the same functionality, but

better than the competitor.

Yeah.

Or it can be different
because it's unique.

Right.

So comparative for us, unique when
I'm showing the differentiators,

Hey, this is different.

, here's why we built it differently.

Here's why it matters to you specifically.

And then here's a story about another
customer, ideally similar to them, of how

they have gotten value from this feature.

This storytelling gives some
emotion to it and helps it stand out

Luigi: more.

Absolutely.

So you are further enhancing the
confidence from the bias perspective

that somebody else like them has
been able to achieve X result.

through using.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and so, because some would argue
with you that, hang on a second, but if I

don't show all the features right, I'm not
actually all the bells and whistles, um,

I'm not, you know, I've gotta give more.

I've gotta give more than, than
what they're asking for, just

to keep building up that value.

Why is that a big mistake
for sellers to make?

Kyle: Yeah, because, uh, buyers are afraid
that not only will a rep try to force

a bad deal on them, they'll also try to
upsell them to unnecessary functionality.

, now it's totally fine to, I actually
recommend show them things that

they don't think or know that they.

Yeah.

As long as you can prove
to them why they need it.

It goes back to differentiators.

Here's why we built this.

Yeah.

Even for people that don't know they need
it, and here's why you actually do, it's

a whole challenger sale mentality, right?

Yeah.

Educating them, the buyer
saying, Hey, I've never thought

of that, but now I agree.

There's a difference between that.

and just going through a massive
feature dump to show everything.

Mm-hmm.

, because you're convinced from
product marketing team that your

product really is the best and
you gotta show it all the other.

The other psychology piece is when
somebody thinks that your solution

has more than they need, regardless
of the price point you just became.

Yeah.

People don't like spending money for
things they don't use, and so a product

that has more than they think they
need, even if you're moderately priced

compared to the competition, they still
think you cost too much for them because

they're not gonna get full value.

Yeah.

Luigi: Yeah.

This is interesting.

Right.

Okay, so you've, you've helped the
prospect, you've mapped what they've

told you in that first, in the first
stage of the, of the buying journey,

and clearly showed them exactly.

, your product will help them
with the different use cases

that they've shared with you.

You've also spoken about the improved
results that'll occur for them as they're

progressing and then you've sought
consensus and they've said, you know what?

This is great.

We're aligned.

Let's move to the next
stage of the process.

So now we're moving to
the bottom of the funnel.

Right.

Um, what are some of the things that
are happening from the buyer side that

you prepare for to try to mitigate?

any issues or risks to make
sure that they do arrive at a

confident point of decision.

Kyle: So there are, I, I think
there, there's two predominant buyer

psychological shifts that happen
towards the end of the deal cycle.

The first one in the biggest one Yeah.

Is what if I buy this and it doesn't work?

Yeah.

And now it, it, it, it not working.

Could be for a lot of reasons.

It could be bad product from the seller.

It could also.

Their IT team doesn't have the bandwidth.

Yeah, it could be they just
screw up the project plan.

But regardless, nobody wants to
be the person advocating for a

solution that doesn't end up working.

So the failed implementation fear, that's
probably the biggest one to overcome.

The second one, still critical
is a lot of buyers don't know

how to successfully purchase.

Yeah.

And so at the end of the deal
cycle where reps are usually happy

to give control to the buyer by
saying, Hey, here's the proposal.

Go figure out how to buy this.

We'll check in with you later.

The buyer's like, all right, well, I'm
not really sure how to get this approved.

So those are the, the two big things
that I wor I want my sellers to work on.

Yeah.

And, and our good

Luigi: friend Jen Allen,
talks about this, right?

39%.

of b2b, B2B engagements end
up in no decision, right?

There's a whole range of
reasons why they end up there.

I think you've also hit the nail on
the head as well, is here's a proposal.

Go figure out, instead of flipping
it and understanding, well, what is

the business case that you need to
submit in order to get this approved?

So I think this is a really, this is,
this is actually really interesting.

So can you just maybe just walk
us through your process so the

buyer says, yep, this is great.

Send us a proposal.

, um, what's your, what's your
process in, in getting that

proposal submitted and accepted?

Yeah.

It's, uh,

Kyle: trying to maintain
control as much as possible.

Yeah.

And so once they, once they give us the,
the whole, Hey, let us, let us take this,

discuss internally and get back to you.

Yeah.

My, my question is, first off, okay,
who, who are you gonna be talking to?

In my experience now, I'm gonna do a
little bit of coaching, a little bit of

guiding with my question in my experience.

Usually at this point, we need
to have financial stakeholders.

. Yeah.

For budget reasons, we also need
to have it approved because they're

the ones that either raise their
hands and say, yeah, we have the

availability to execute on this project.

Who else would you be talking to?

Yeah, so I'm for, I'm,
I'm doing two things here.

One, I'm making sure that they
know, go talk to it and finance.

Two, I'm understanding what other
stakeholders that have not yet been

involved are about to be involved.

Once they uncover hopefully one or
two others that need to be involved.

I'm asking questions like I, based
on what you've seen of our solution,

what would resonate most with them?

Yeah.

Here's the three outcomes
we're trying to drive for you.

Which of those resonate most with them?

My goal here is I want to go revise
my proposal, revise my business case

to no longer speak to my contact.

But to speak to the people, my contact is
now gonna go sell to internally, right?

And so then to maintain control of the
deal, my offer is, Hey, now that I know

you're talking to finance, talking to
it, you're talking to your boss and

your skip level, let me go back and
pull out some of the most important

parts of our solution for them.

Easily condense it for you.

Then let's find 15 minutes
before you meet with them.

I'll walk you through that.

That way you don't get to worry
about building this internally and

taking your time for a business case
to get my product approved, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that allows me to make sure I'm
coaching them more and also understanding

who wants to get involved while coaching
them on people that need to get involved,

that a lot of people often skip.

And you never want to be the person
waiting for a contract signature and

find out that it's not getting signed.

Cause at the last minute it
said, Hey, we can't, we can't

implement this for six months.

Yeah.

Luigi: Yeah.

I mean that's, look, so what you're
doing is, again, you're helping

your buyer based on all the other
deals that you've con you've put

together and guided others through.

You're using that kind of, those
plans to say, Hey, these are the

drawings that others have used to
build, you know, their outcomes.

and you are helping them kind of identify
is this something they need to do as well?

Kyle: Right?

Precisely.

I've gone through a lot of sales cycles.

My buyer hasn't.

Yeah.

I'm gonna tell them a couple of things
I know are gonna have to happen while

coaching them to go ask the questions.

It's really to find out what else may
need to happen, and I'm maintaining

control of the end of the deal, not just
sending them off to do my job for me.

Luigi: Mate, this is awesome For me, this
has been a, I've, I've got notes, right?

So , whenever I have a good episode,
uh, or whenever I feel like I've,

I, I feel like it's a good episode.

Hopefully they're all good episodes.

I often do take notes, and this
has been a good one, right?

Because I, you've helped me
trigger some thought for me around

certain things and, and I love the
way that you look at it, right?

You're not just looking at it from a
sales perspective, but you look at it

from a buyer's perspective and then
going, well, if this is what they're

thinking, How do I overcome this?

How do I help them?

So I think this has been a great one.

And for, for most of our listeners,
um, they should have taken a whole

bunch of notes, uh, and, and which
I think will help them during

the, during the buying journey.

But before we let you go, and again,
I could talk to you for hours about

this stuff, um, where's the best
place for our listeners to find

and engage with you, uh, LinkedIn?

Yeah,

Kyle: so I, I post pretty frequently,
and then sales introverts dot.

Is where I post, uh, my, my best
content in a bloating, not a bit of a

community there, so sales introverts.com.

Okay.

Awesome

Luigi: mate.

We'll, we'll make sure that we share that.

I think I'm gonna have
to join your community.

We'll have to share that in our,
in our show notes, um, so that

we can, we can get our listeners
to connect with you over there.

But I just wanna say, man, thanks.

I've really enjoyed this podcast.

Um, again, because you are coming from a
place of, this is not theoretical, right?

You're doing this, you're building, you're
putting deals together all the time.

You're coaching people how to do it.

So I just wanna say thanks
for coming on our podcast.

Thanks for the contribution in
the a to the sales community and.

Providing content and thinking and
ideas that can help sellers be the

Kyle: best they can be.

That's been an absolute pleasure.

Would you Thank you for having me on.