How to Sell Podcast: Make How You Sell, Why You Win

Luigi Prestinenzi: Wait
a minute, wait a minute.

This Grill Farm Production, this
is the Scalable Growth Podcast.

I'm your host, Luigi Preston, and each
week we will go on a journey, A journey

that will inspire you, motivate you, and
help you be the very best you can be.

Our focus will be on mindset, tactics
and the strategies that will enable

you to create more opportunities and.

More deals.

Welcome back to another episode
of the Scalable Growth Podcast.

I'm delighted to have you
join us again for what will

be another incredible episode.

If you're a first time listener, I just
wanna say thank you for stopping by and

checking this particular episode out,
and I hope you take away enough insight,

enough thoughts, my ideas that'll
help you be the very best you can be.

And if you're a longtime listener, thank.

Thank you for always showing up and,
and helping us produce some great

content because we do this for you.

We do this to help salespeople
be the very best they can be.

Now, this week we have,
it's almost Christmas.

Can you believe it?

There's only a couple of days left.

The festive time is upon us.

You've probably got some
Christmas breakup party.

You're probably enjoying a few drinks with
friends and looking forward to catching up

with family, and some of you might even be
trying to close those last minute deals.

But the reality is, at this
stage of the year, Closing

deals trying to get your target.

If you are, it's, it's very difficult.

And for me, my thought on this is at this
stage of the year, everything we should

be doing is planning for a successful
Q1 or planning for a successful January.

We should have our sales plan already.

We should have our.

Identified our metrics that we need
to be working on to achieve success.

And if you haven't done that yet,
this is a great opportunity to

do it the next couple of weeks.

The worst thing that you
can do is start 2023.

Can you believe it?

It's almost 2023, but the the
worst thing that you can do

is start in a reactive mode.

You start a couple of weeks
behind the eight ball.

You want to be proactive.

Now, you want to start to really think
about with everything going on, yes,

the market is tightening up, but this
is the opportunity that you have.

To start to set up the foundations
of what you need to be working and

building on to make sure next month
and the quarter is a success for you.

I have spoken to a few salespeople
who are trying to close last

minute deals and they're finding
it hard to get people engaged.

And because people are, you know, going on
leave now, um, and closing out deals and,

and closing out key contracts is probably
not in their, they're the highest.

From a priority perspective.

So that's just something to consider
and we need to be considering that

when we're planning our, our pipeline
and thinking about the activities

that we need to do, often the end of
December, start of January is quite slow.

We need to forecast for that.

We need to plan for that.

So this is why you have a
great opportunity now because

the year's about to click.

Thinking about those goals, thinking
about those plans, thinking about

those metrics, and start to formulate
what does your plan need to look

like for you to achieve success?

I will do an episode and I'll, I'll,
I'll drop that in the new year and talk

a bit about what are some of the things
that you can do to build your sales plan.

And I will gi give some content away.

To help you do that and make it easier
for you to build your sales plan.

But let's get to this week's episode.

This week's episode, really excited.

The whole notion of, you know, outreach.

People talk about outreach, how
difficult it is, how hard it is

to actually engage with prospects.

And the reality is the reason
why it's hard, because so many

people don't take the time to
personalize their outreach messages.

They don't take the time
to do a level of research.

They don't earn the right to get the
time in their prospects calendars.

And there's a term called show me, you
know, This has been been thrown around.

If you're, if you're in the
LinkedIn world, you would've

seen this term thrown around.

That term was coined by Samantha
McKenna, and she's remarkable.

This episode, you're gonna find so
much value and you might even wanna

listen to it a second time because
Samantha's gonna drop some, some insight

on what you can do across LinkedIn.

What you can do across your
outreach to get more engagement,

and this is what it's all about.

The competitive differentiator for you
in 2023 is your ability to show them

that you know them, is your ability
to go do a bit of research, bring a

really valid point of view that want
makes the prospect wanting to know.

That is the definition of, that's,
that's what success looks like

from an outreach perspective.

The premise of outreach or the purpose
of outreach is not to get them to buy,

it's to get some inform of engagement.

But why should they engage with
you if you've done their research?

If you are not showing them that you know
them, or you are not showing them that,

Hey, this is the reason I'm reaching out.

This is why you should care about X.

This is how this is relevant to.

And this is what Sam's gonna cover today.

So we're gonna cover a
lot of really good topics.

Sam is awesome.

Absolutely love her content, her content.

I've used some of her concepts and
methodologies to help me be the

very best I can be, and I'm so glad
I've been able to bring her to help

you be the very best you can be.

Sam Mckenna: Welcome to the show, Sam.

Hi, Luigi.

Nice to be here.

Thanks for having me.

Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah, I'm actually
really excited, but I'm also disappointed

and I, I'll tell you why, because I
was listening to a great podcast the

other day with Dar from the Inside
Inside Sales podcast, and I'm like,

well, how did Dar who, who never heard
of him is this, he's this unknown

guy that seems to be trying to.

Uh, make himself known in Canada.

But um, yeah, I'm like, how did
he get you on his show before me?

So, thanks so much for
jumping on our podcast.

Sam Mckenna: You got it.

I, you know, I'm here for
free, but Darryl had to pay me.

It was like a 20,000 fee.

I finally broke and I
was like, fine buddy.

I'll do it.

I'll be on your podcast

Luigi Prestinenzi: Well, I'm all,
I'm really excited because I think

there's a couple of, um, ways this
conversation could go today around, yeah.

Obviously the agenda, and we'll talk
about a bit about that in a moment.

But then I just think it's some
general, you know, things that sellers

can do today to help them become, you
know, get themselves in a position of

winning and, and I love that frame,
right, because we can't control the

outcome, but we can absolutely control.

What we do to, to get to the start line.

Um, but before we jump
into this topic, uh, yeah.

Would love for you to share a bit
about yourself and how you started

in this wacky world of selling

.
Sam Mckenna: I, I think I'm much like
everybody else that I, I did not dream

of being a salesperson when I was small.

Um, but I fell into sales.

Uh, in 2008.

I was part of a company, um, and I
got, uh, I got late after, during the,

the 2008 start, kinda the recession.

and I knew the owner of a, uh,
recruiting company, a really,

uh, successful recruiting company
here in dc And he was like, oh.

He's like, I have a
great sales shop for you.

And I was like, woo.

Sales . Uh, and I remember, I
remember turning down the job.

They wanted me to work there so much.

They, they were like, what will it take?

And I negotiated for a
whopping $5,000 more.

I'm telling you guys, I think at the time
I was an enterprise account manager, and I

think I had, I had negotiated for $55,000.

Very excited about this.

I was like, I'm rich.

Um, Was, that was my start.

And then, you know, I think it's
interesting that the way that I thought

about sales is probably like a lot
of people thought about sales or even

think about it now that it's grimy,
salesy, ski v, you know, whatever.

Um, but in fact, I really think
about it like it's, it's an

opportunity to help people.

Um, they have a challenge.

They're coming to talk to
us for a reason, right?

They're on the call with us to solve
something going on in their organization,

and we have the opportunity to make
them more successful or whatever.

Um, so it, I think when I changed
my lens for that, Uh, it really

gave me confidence in selling.

And then from there, I just, you
know, I, I, I broke one record after

another, always over, you know, hit
my quota, rep of the air, rookie of

the air Presence club, all that stuff.

Um, worked my way to the executive
ranks because I realized through a

lot of feedback that the things that
I did really well were unique to me.

They were the, the things that make up Sam
sales now that I post about on LinkedIn.

Um, So I thought, well, one, I,
I think I can scale what makes

me a good seller to other people.

Yeah.

So I wanna be a leader.

Two, I'm almost more motivated by
other people's success than my own.

I guess I probably am more motivated.

Um, and then three, just
thinking about how do I start to.

Get more of this word out there, which
got me posting on LinkedIn, uh, which

ultimately got me seen by LinkedIn,
um, and then recruited over there.

And I think of that final, that
was kinda my holy grail working

for, for LinkedIn and sales.

Um, it was.

It was incredible.

Um, and when I broke my 13th record
in my sales career at LinkedIn, I

just started to think, you know what?

Right now I'm making a ton of money
for other organizations and I'm only

impacting one company or one team.

What can I do if I start on my own?

And then this journey down, Sam
Sales started about three years ago.

Yeah.

That's

Luigi Prestinenzi: an awesome story.

And do you mind sharing with us, you know,
you've achieved some incredible success

in, in a number of different roles.

, what were some of the things, I know that
you've got that really cool perspective

around the purpose of the role, which
I think is the first thing, right?

It's, it's having a, it's
not about commission.

It's not about crushing your number.

Um, and I, I share a very
similar view to you, right?

It's about making a positive difference
in the people that we work with.

Um, but what were some
of the other attributes?

Allowed you to achieve
success in each role?

I think

Sam Mckenna: the, one of the
biggest things I will say that

has been a difference maker is the
just sheer act of follow through.

Um, so I'll give you just
a couple of examples.

Um, when I got promoted to net
new enterprise sales, I was able

to take three accounts with me.

To give me a little bit of
padding, um, in my net new role.

And I did some, some
due diligence on data.

I found that we worked with
three of the largest law firms

in the world, and I wondered why.

So I started interviewing them and
in one of the interviews with a chief

marketing officer, he said, why don't
you go and look at my LinkedIn profile,

see who I'm connected to, and then
just send them an email and tell them

that you're a friend of mine and that
they should take a meeting with you.

And I was like, what?

And I'm like, . So I think I,
I think about this with follow

through because I left that meeting.

I went to our office and I say
that the entire night doing that.

It also made me realize, you know,
how important subject lines were.

Mm-hmm.

, because instead of burying the
lead, I put a friend center webinar

inquiry from a friend of Jim Durhams,
I think was my exact subject line.

Yeah.

I see the follow through piece
on that because I tell people

to do that all the time.

Go and look at my LinkedIn connections.

I have 44,000 followers.

There is probably somebody that you
wanna sell to that's connected to me.

Ask me for an introduction.

People never do it.

Yeah.

And it's such an easy win, right?

Um, we, I started a few programs that
were really successful that have been

tried before at other organizations,
mentorship, culture, things like that.

People told me it won't
work, it's been tried.

I think my follow through
is what saw success.

I'm not that person that commits
to something and then leaves the

gym six weeks into the new year.

I'm still in there in September.

I'm still working at my goal.

If I'm going to say I'm
gonna do it, I'm doing it.

Um, and I think that's
one of the biggest things.

If you look at, at the difference
between, um, the, the super

successful, consistently
successful top performers follow.

Piece to their core.

If they say they're going
to do it, it's gonna happen.

Yeah, it's

Luigi Prestinenzi: interesting.

And that, look, it sounds cool.

So simple, right?

Like when you act the way that you've
just summarized that a high performing

sales professional, the attitude,
it sounds a really simple thing.

Just follow through and you mentioned,
you know, go to your profile, find

who you're connected with, and then
reach you and ask me for an intro.

But yet nobody does.

And like, why do you think.

sellers today.

Uh, because if we look at the
data, we look at the, some

reports, a lot of reports show
the trust gap is getting wider.

, you know, buyers don't trust sellers.

Um, yeah.

Less and less or, or sellers are
struggling to hit their quota, so the

numbers getting harder and harder.

We're seeing layoffs, like
there's a whole range, and I

know that there's a, there's a.

There's some macro trends happening,
which fall outside of our controller

sellers, but yeah, I'm like you.

I also get to work with a lot of high
performers that regardless of the economic

environment, they're still excelling.

They're still achieving
great outcomes, right?

Yep.

I look at them and I'm like, well, they've
got a really good mindset, the way they

position themselves, the way they set
themselves up, their follow through.

, what do you think many sellers
struggle to execute the fundamentals

when it comes to selling?

Sam Mckenna: I think, you know, I,
I just wanna go back to one of your,

your points that you mentioned, right?

How those sellers are still
being successful in spite

of the market conditions.

And I will just say, , right?

Those sellers are thinking proactively.

They're not acting reactively, so they're
constantly thinking, how do I build pipe?

How do I build pipe?

How do I build pipe over
and over and over again?

It's maniacal for them.

Yeah.

You'll see those same top
sellers who hit quota.

You know, I, one year I hit
my annual quota in September.

September, I don't
know, 16th or something.

So I have two choices.

I can say, see you guys in
January, or I can push the.

To print money this year mm-hmm.

and to set myself up for
insane success next year.

So I think that's one
of the things, right.

And, and I don't know if it's an
art, if it's a bit of laziness.

I don't know if it's a, don't
really know how to do this, but.

And I'll tell you for me,
I am competitive as hell.

Yeah.

I have a little bit of an ego.

I want my brand, um, to always
be super positive, right?

Like I want those, those that follow
through right, is part of my personal

brand in and outside of an organization.

But that competitiveness tells me, you
give me a goal and I'm gonna figure

out how to control it and how to hit it
myself, and I'm gonna hit it faster and

harder than anybody else on my team.

That to me, my heart's racing.

That to me is, is like,
that's, that's who I am.

Right?

So I think if all sellers kind of
take that, that lens and think,

I'm not gonna rely on anybody
else, I can do this, right?

Or to think like, it's, it's the end
of August right now for, for us, right?

When we're talking, if you think,
let's say your year ends, at the

end of the calendar, you're, if
you realize there's just no shot

in hell, I'm gonna make it right?

Mm-hmm.

, start to think about
seven, six months ahead.

Start to think about
what can you do today?

To build pipe for next, next year for
even make sure you get a few more deals

in, make sure that that is happening.

Yeah.

But if you know there's no way
you're gonna come, come close to it.

Start to build that pipeline, I think,
um, , there's a couple of things that are,

are kind of, um, separating us from being
able to, to actually take that action.

And one of it, I, you know, kind of
like you and I talked about earlier,

um, is the, the access to sales
technologies that now just become

the, it's like our, our crutch.

So sending emails, I just hit.

Push, and then it, it happens, right?

And all the emails go out and I don't
have to think about it, or you know, I'm

just expecting my BDR team to drive leads.

I'm expecting inbound.

I'm expecting our brand name to
bring leads in when in fact, right.

It really should be about us learning
the fundamentals of sales, how to

write a great email, how to show up
to a discovery call the right way.

How?

Look to solve the challenges that our
buyers have and play the long game.

It's so simple things, right, that
can really make top performers

consistent, top performers.

And the thing that I love about that is
sky's the limit on what you can make.

Yeah.

I mean, I know reps who make
a million bucks a year, right?

And they're just being proactive all
the time about building that pipe.

Yeah.

I love that.

I'm

Luigi Prestinenzi: taking notes, right?

So a sign of a good guess for me,
Sam, is uh, I can, I'm actually

taking some notes and there's a
lot of key takeaways there, right?

I think.

, you're right.

It's, it's focusing on the
controllables and really going,

yeah, well, this is my pipe.

There's one thing that I can control.

It's the amount of opportunities
that I put into my pipe.

It's, you know, learning this, the
fundamentals, writing good emails,

um, not just hitting sand on.

You know, 500 emails and
saying, I've done my job now.

Right.

There's so much more behind that.

Yeah.

Sam Mckenna: And you know, I, I think
for, for me, I've never, I've never,

I think this will surprise people
and I have to put a post up about it

one day, but I've never, ever been
formally trained in any of the sales

methodologies that are out there.

Yeah.

And if I'm being honest, with exception
to Challenger Sale, which I, I think

is a phenomenal read and a phenomenal
methodology, I think the rest of them.

Kind of hokey and kind of
outdated and kind of garbagey.

Sorry guys.

Um, I'm gonna get canceled for that.

Um, but I think that's,
that's also where we go wrong.

We give a sales rep a 97 point play
system that they have to put in place,

and they ask this, and then they do
this, and then they, and it's, Jesus.

It's too hard.

So instead, again, think
about how to coach.

To make sure that they're
coming to the, the, the table.

All right.

Ready to have a conversation.

Ready to solve a challenge.

Just being human instead of asking
terrible things like would you be opposed

to having a conversation or is the reason
you haven't responded because you've

been eaten by an alligator mine, God.

Um, right.

Like that.

I think that's also hindering us.

Everybody knows that they
have a sales by when.

And said that it really isn't that hard.

Yeah.

Luigi Prestinenzi: You know,
it's, it's interesting and I'm,

I am a big fan of Challenger.

I remember reading a book
and I'm like, this is, yeah.

Amazing, smart.

I spoke to Brent about this, one of
the authors, and it was interesting.

It, it, it did create polar opposite
sides from an opinion perspective.

People either loved it or people hated it.

And yeah, I said this to Brent, I said,
what I took away from that, and it,

it actually helped me land my biggest
opportunity, um, at the time was I

took away the whole, like that, show
me, you know, me, , that insight-led

approach is bringing a point of view.

It wasn't about telling my customer
or my prospect what you're doing

wrong, because I think that's
where, yeah, misinterpreted.

It was just coming to the table with a
level of insight to say, Hey, actually

I'm showing you that I know you right.

Which I think is the biggest gap.

When I look at what sellers are doing
today, I coach so many of them, I.

nowhere in this message are you actually
showing them that you know them, right?

Yeah.

And you're not making it a relevant point
of view now because you've just gone

in with a generic statement that you're
using for another a hundred, 200 people.

. So why should they care about you?

Right?

Completely.

Sam Mckenna: Right?

And even think about that how you're,
how you're coming to the table to kind

of challenge their perspective, right?

When you bring those insights, right,
and you bring a different point

of view, I think there, there are
two ways to position that, right?

We can say like, you're doing it
wrong, this is how you should do

it, which is never gonna fly, right?

Um, or you can say like, tell me a
little bit about why you're doing.

I'll say this to you, like, I remember one
of my first deals, um, a client came to

us and said, we want you to do a, b, abc.

If you can switch, if you can
do abc, we'll switch to you.

My solutions engineer said, why in
the hell are they still doing C?

They should be doing Q.

And I'm like, I'm like,
don't say anything.

Just tell them we can
do ABC and that's it.

And I was like, get outta the way.

, right?

And so he gets on the call, he's like, you
can, you cannot sell them A, B, C, a, bq.

That's it.

I'm like, all right.

So he gets on the call and he
is like, tell me a little bit

about why you're still doing C.

And they're like, what do you mean still?

And he's like, modern
organizations are doing Q.

I'd just love to understand if
there's some logic behind C.

And they were like, oh, we
didn't know we should be doing Q.

Why should, why should we be doing that?

And we close the deal.

Right?

And it like it, it opened my eyes
right to that challenger aspect to

like shit like we can, sorry, curse.

Mm-hmm.

, we can come to the table, right?

We can offer a point of view insights.

Have you considered it this way?

Modern organizations are doing this.

Is there a way why?

Your reason you do it this way?

I also think it's very
important to read the room.

. We were just on a call where
our client said, you know, we'd

love some help with sequences.

Um, we're about to, uh, deploy, um,
H vs under Salesforce, and sorry

for any Salesforce there listening
out there, but woo of a product.

And so I said, is there, I said, you know,
we're big fans of out SalesLoft tier.

Is there reason why you're choosing that?

And the buyer was very
determined, this is a solution

we're going with, and that's it.

Yeah.

And you know, we've kind,
we've already decided and.

. So we also have to figure
out, you know, is this person

open-minded to listen to something?

Does this person want our perspective
on this, or are they very firm

that this is what they want?

And then we've gotta figure out
how to navigate that situation, not

two is the art of the sale having
a conversation, listening, actively

listening, asking questions, right?

There's a lot that

Luigi Prestinenzi: goes into that.

Yeah.

But that's the intuition that you talk
about, that if you follow a certain

framework to the letter of the.

You actually lose your
intuition in the sale.

And I've often said sometimes the
plan that I've gone in with the plan

that I've spent hours preparing,
I just throw it off the table.

Because when I'm in there, something has
happened where it's like, I can't stick

with this plan no more because there's
a stakeholder here, which has completely

thrown this whole plan out the window.

Right.

And if I stick to where I'm going, I've
gotta now just pivot a little bit and,

and again, you, you know, there are
some people that you deal with and.

They've got an opinion,
you can't change it, right?

Yeah.

Um, and you just gotta educate
and hope that at some point you

can maybe take 'em on a journey.

If not, we're either gonna work
together in this capacity or

maybe we're the wrong fit here.

because what you are trying to
achieve, we can't help you get there.

And there's no point in us making
a promise that we can't, like you

said, follow through on Right.

That,

Sam Mckenna: that's such a
good post that you just said.

Right.

That's something that you should put
out on LinkedIn talking about when we

follow that plan, we lose our intuition.

Right.

Or that intuition gets lost because
you're, you're exactly right.

And I, I also think that's
a, an opportunity where we

have to grow as sellers.

You.

Those sellers that show up to demos
and they have a 98 slide presentation,

and you're like, oh, I'm gonna die.

But midway, you know, or early in the
conversation, you ask a question as an

executive leader and they say, oh, um,
I'm gonna get to that, but um, can I just

finish my PowerPoint presentation first?

And you're like, no, nobody wants to
listen to your stupid presentation.

Right.

So thinking about like, how
do we use the information?

How do we read the room?

How do we see what a new executive.

that's come in maybe that we didn't
expect to be there, what they're saying

to pivot or drive the conversation.

And one last thing I'll tell you.

On that same thing, right?

We, we were again, just another call day
about writing sequences for a client.

And when we listened and we really
unpacked everything and talked about

what we did, I said, what, what's the
ch can I ask, what's the challenge

we're really looking to solve here?

Um, is it, is it writing?

Is it getting that over the line?

And they said, pipeline, our sellers
are, are, it was a B BDR team.

And they're like, our sellers
cannot get enough pipeline.

And I'm like, then we shouldn't
be focusing on sequences because

that's gonna be a longer play.

That's gonna take time.

Right?

That's not gonna turn the
faucet off and fix our pipeline.

Here's what will, so coming in with
those insights, being ready to, to

understand their challenges, and then
being able to be prescriptive is huge.

Yeah.

Luigi Prestinenzi: But again, you've just
also touched on something that I think

is really important, and I get this all
the time, and you probably get, when

people reach out to us and say, I need
sales training, I, the first question

I ask is, well, what's happened in your
business for this to become a priority?

Right?

Or, what's happened in your business
for you to now look into this?

And nine times out of 10, it's not
sales training they're looking for.

There's a problem that's
happening in their organization.

They think sales training is the fix.

Right?

And often it's not the fix.

I often say, well, you can throw
some training at this, but if you

actually don't change some of the
attitudes or behaviors of your

people, they're not gonna, you've
got a fundamental issue over here.

Right?

So don't address something on the Right.

When you haven't addressed
something on the left.

Yeah.

And right.

This is again, I love the what you
said, being proactive and going.

I work with people like you all the time.

I see trends, so it's my job to
kind of help you navigate through

this process and help you, yeah.

You know, identify things that you might
not be seeing because you're in it.

, I'm out of it.

Right.

I see things

Sam Mckenna: from a different
perspective completely.

And you, I think you, you touched on
something so important there, right?

I, there's a, a line that I
always talk about that we are

too quick to trust our prospects.

And that sounds a little rude, right?

But we really are.

So, prospect comes to us
and says the problem, uh, I

need, I need sales training.

If we're quick to say, I trust
you, I trust that you know

what you're talking about.

Here's how we can help you train.

We're gonna miss them are because
most of the time, to your point,

they don't know how to solve for
what they're looking to solve for.

They just think that they know.

So imagine, right, how much more powerful
we can be if we say, I get what you need.

Can you tell me the goal or the,
the reason, the thing that's

driving this need from you?

What are, what are we looking to do there?

Um, right.

And more often.

More often.

Not find it something else.

Maybe somebody hires us to be a, a
weight room trainer and we find that

they wanna get to the moon and we.

Working out.

It's not gonna get you to the moon,
but I know how you can get to the

moon, so I can help you with that.

Right.

It's our, just as you said,
it's our job to uncover that.

What I also love about this, right,
is I always say the number one thing

we are here to do on a discovery
call somebody has gifted us with

30 minutes of their time is to
solve the challenge that they have.

If we show up to the conversation
to find out what that is, hopefully

the majority of the time it
will be something that we do.

Some of the time it's not going
to be us or they're gonna be too

old, too mature, too big, too
young, too whatever for us, right?

As an organization, not as a person.

Don't worry, I'm not being ageist.

Um, but they're right.

So we need to understand that we need to
qualify or unqual disqualify them, but.

when we disqualify them.

I think that part of our job is to find
someone or give them a recommendation of

somebody that can be a resource to them.

Yes.

To me, it's like that
trustworthy mechanic.

You know, you bring your car in, they're
like, we can't help you, but here's

someone who can, or you can get it fixed
for free if you go across the street

and you're like, well, just happened.

They're honest and it's the
same thing with salespeople, but

Luigi Prestinenzi: that's why I love
what Brent's currently talking about

right now is around making sense.

Yeah.

helping our buyers don't have all the
answers to the questions that they before.

Right.

So, and I've found that, and, and it's
interesting when you take that viewpoint

where I might not be able to serve you
and commercialize this relationship.

If I help you, and I've, I've
had this happen many times.

I've, I've connected them with
somebody else or I've given

them some content to say, Hey, I
can't help you, but maybe this.

They see me as a trusted advisor, and
then when there is something that I

can help 'em with, they often come
back course, or they always call me as

a point of reference to say, Hey, you
know, I need training in this part.

I know you don't do it,
but do you know anyone?

Absolutely.

Exactly.

Because they see me as
that in inner circle.

Right?

Which I think is, that is for me, selling.

Selling.

That's kind.

That's kind of the ideal state I want to
get to with my trusted network because

as we know, referrals, ref referrals are,
they convert at the highest possible rate.

Yep.

Doesn't matter.

You know, we've seen this time
and time again, um, over the,

in, in, in my whole career.

So, but I think this is a perfect
segue because you're talking about the

discovery, you're talking about showing
up, um, educating, asking great questions,

and there was a post that you did.

Uh, turning up to a discovery
call and not having an agenda.

And , I ha , I have a
different opinion to that.

Right?

It was really good.

It, it, it elicited a
lot of good response.

There was a lot of comments on the post.

We'll actually post in the show notes.

I'll have to some disagreements.

Yes, it was good.

Um, now, and I think Darrell, this,
this guy that, you know, not many people

know about him, but I'm sure will pop
his link in the show notes as well.

But Darryl comes, he,
he also shares the view.

, having an agenda is important.

Now, before I share my perspective,
talk me through why you think

that turning up to a discovery and
just having a conversation versus

starting with a, with a simple.

Agenda is the better way for sellers.

Sam Mckenna: I think an, an
agenda to me is unnecessary.

And here's why.

Here's what I think.

If I showed up to a call and I
set an agenda and I said, here's

what I'd like to do today.

I'd like to hear a little bit more
about you, which I already wrote in the

meeting invite that I sent you so you
could be properly prepared for this call.

I'd like to hear a little
bit more about you.

Um, I'd like to ask you some.

Uh, then I would like to tell you
a little bit about us, and then

if there seems to be a mutual
fit, we'll schedule for next call.

How does that sound?

We know that that's exactly
what we're here to do.

Right?

It's a, it's the, the example that
I used with the first date, like we

would never show up to our first date.

Be like, tell me about yourself.

We'll get some drinks.

It'll tell you about me, and then
we'll decide if we wanna, no, we

already we're here to do, right.

So to me it's unnecessary
and it adds a level of.

Um, this is gonna sound counterintuitive
being a sales trainer, but as a, a

level of sales process and I think
formality that is just not necessary

for a first date, if you will.

Yeah, right.

We know what we're here to achieve.

And to me, I also think it's like,
so we set, we build a rapport, we

then set the agenda, and then we say
like, okay, well tell us a little bit

about what's going on in the business.

And it's a weird kind of transition
where, I've got an idea of

how to run that call better.

But you, you tell me
your, your perspective

.
Luigi Prestinenzi: Yeah, well,
I, again, I'm, and I'm like you,

I send the agenda ahead of time.

I put it into the meeting,
in the meeting invite.

Right.

I put, Hey, these are the three, and I
usually keep it to three things cuz Yeah.

Especially if you've got sort
of half an hour to an hour.

Um, now, I, I, I am very structured.

I do use a structured approach and,
uh, it's not a Sandler or anything.

I just, something that I've, I've learned
from a few different books that I read.

Um, but I like to lead with, I
never lead with the whole, tell

me about your business anyway.

Because I come from the, and I've seen
the data that if, if they're giving me.

I need to do my research.

And, and again, I I, I've seen some
reports that say, you know, 89%

of buyers expect us to know their
industry, know their problems, and

know a bit about their business, right?

So yeah, I haven't got time to
educate me on what I can already

find out in the public domain.

Yeah.

So I do that research so that I can
actually, when I start asking questions,

They're really thoughtful questions and
they see that that question's coming

from a place of research and already
my brand and that rapport starts to.

They, it increases relationship,
tension, decreases.

Cause they're like, this person's
taken the time to read about

my business, read about, yeah.

What's happening in our
industry and asking a question

that's quite relevant to me.

Yeah.

But the way I start most meetings is I
say, Hey Sam, thanks so much again for

taking the time to meet with me today.

I thought as a, you know, mention on
the phone, the purpose of today would be

for me to share a little bit of insight
into what we're seeing sales orgs, um,

implement to sort of achieve a, B, C.

also get a better understanding of what
you are doing in this current market.

Um, and then we can discuss
how we might be able to help

and if there's the next steps.

Was there anything else
you wanted to cover?

So I kind of use that kind of frame
up, which is a very simple 32nd.

I try to make it not so formal by the
way I deliver it, so the way I say it.

Yeah.

Um, and usually what
they usually say is up.

They give me an extra bit.

Yes.

I would love to know.

A, B, C.

I've, I've noticed on your site
you're working with HubSpot, would

love to know a bit about that.

Great.

Um, although I'll say,
no, that sounds good.

And then we can move into the convo.

So that's my kind of way that I do it.

And then I lead with the insight
first before asking a question.

So I lead with insight to say,
this is what, so it's like a two

to three minute narrative and then.

, there's the question behind it because
when I leave with that narrative,

they start saying, well, actually,
I, I get them thinking about.

the, something different, right?

Um, yeah.

And then that opens a conversation
up and then I kind of seamlessly

move into the discovery stage,
which is asking some questions.

And then we we're talking
about the opportunity, right?

So that's my structure.

No, what, you

Sam Mckenna: know, I think like,
and like you and I have talked

about this before too, right?

I think that there are.

. So few things in sales that are
black and white of like, you must do

this right, that we've talked about.

You must never be late to an, uh, meeting.

You must never insult your client.

Yeah, I think everything else is style.

It's how, it's also authentic
style to how we work.

So even if I talk about my framework
for a discovery call, it may just

not work for somebody else who just
isn't that kind of personality.

Mm-hmm.

. But I think my perspective
is a little different.

And I think what I, the way I kind of
lead the call, right, number one, Really

always think about that Zoom presence.

And I say that because right, most of
the reps when I joined calls, they're

like, Sam, really excited to meet you.

I'm so glad you're here.

And I'm like, I tell on your Zoom.

Second that show me, you know, me
building that rapport, making sure

there's a good ambiance there.

Giving them a sense of what you
learned about them, either, either

from a personal perspective or
about their company, et cetera.

Be like, I saw you guys are
doing this great charity event.

I saw you guys, you know,
just made this list.

That must be so amazing, blah, blah.

Just by doing that, show me,
you know, me element again on

them, company vertical, whatever.

And in the conversation of the
icebreaker, you're saying, I've

done my homework, by the way.

Yeah.

Right there.

It's clear.

And then what I love to say is, right
when we're, when we're done with that

business, To me, there's no agenda and
say, you know, like, I'd love to tell

you a million things about Sam sales.

Now, if they are an outbound lead, if
they show up, if they're a referral,

they have absolutely no idea what we do.

I need to give them some pillars, right?

I'd love to tell you a million
things about Sam sales.

Um, you know, what we do with social
selling, how we focus on sales

training foundations, um, what
we work on with sequence writing

or LinkedIn executive presence.

But first, I'd love to hear about.

, right?

And then when that person hears
that, they think like, shit what?

Right.

Deer in headlights.

They don't know what I want.

So I say, I'd love to hear about you.

You know, I know you
guys are working on this.

I know you recently got
your series B funding.

I saw this.

Um, but tell me about your team
challenges, the overall landscape,

like on your side, if that's okay.

Now, to me that's basically just.

Why'd you show up here?

Like what do you want,
um, in a professional way.

And I find that that to me, not only has
asking that question one me deals, right?

Like I tagged Megan from Seismic, um,
who was like, I heard that question

and I knew Sam was our person.

Um, yeah.

But we always get a data dump.

Like the most common response that
I get is, what aren't we working on?

Okay, so let me start here.

And then they.

Talk for a while.

Just two quick things
I'll, I'll say there.

I think, um, it was great.

Like, uh, Doug Landis, who I adore,
um, commented on that and, um,

on that note once and was like,
couldn't disagree more, right?

Like, j just falls into your camp, right?

Like, come with insights, be prepared.

Teach them something.

Mm-hmm.

. Um, and I think for my style, I do.

that homework, that those insights
that I'm prepared, that I'm an

expert in that opening, and then I
say, you tell me how to best drive

this call and work it from there.

The other thing to think about,
and this is it gets really nerdy on

behavioral science, but you think
about introverts and extroverts.

Yeah.

And sometimes if we come to the call and
we say, this is what I'd like to cover.

Anything else, we might get an introvert
who's like, because they don't want

their voice said, or maybe because their
boss is on the line, they don't have

something that they wanna shout out about.

So they'll just say, sounds good to me.

Um, so I think even just by asking
that we might stifle that creativity.

That's really, it's really

Luigi Prestinenzi: interesting a lot.

And, and I'm a big, I, I love disk, for
example, you know, the, the social Yeah.

I'm a big fan of it.

I'm actually just, but you know, I
think something that you've just touched

on, um, , you are absolutely right.

That style and you the charisma.

And I know it's not about selling
iced to Eskimos, cuz I hate that

phrase, like I actually hate
that can sell anything to anyone.

Cause again, I don't believe
in, sell me the Yeah, yeah.

. But I think what you've just mentioned
is, , even if you are an introvert,

cuz I, I've seen and I coached some
really successful sellers that are

not your stereotypical salesperson.

They are introverts, right?

Yeah.

They're very data driven.

They're very analytical.

Which is something that when I
started it was not, you know,

that was not your typical.

persona of a sales professional.

Yeah.

But one thing that they do do
is they do show up to a meeting

and they've got that presence.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's something that I can see,
like when you talk, you've got presence.

You are, um, and, and, and
I have seen it as well.

I've been on the end of Gong Calls and I'm
like, you are looking at the wrong screen.

First and foremost, . Oh my God.

, uh, you got hat on.

Um, which is little, not,
not the worst thing, but.

Where's the energy?

Like, are you not, you're not creating
energy, you're not slowing down your tone.

And I think this is where the
art is sometimes getting lost.

Like we're so focusing on the tools
and the tech and, and, and so look,

that's probably another episode and,
and, um, . But Sam, I love this and I,

and one question I do wanna ask, cause
I know we're, we're pressed for time,

but, um, when you do book a discovery
call, If you're not connected with the

by committee, say you, you, there's
three or four people coming to that

meeting for that, that first meeting.

Are you proactive and connect with them
first so that they can then start to

see your content before that meeting?

Hell yeah.

Sam Mckenna: Yeah.

I think the, the press that we've got
every, basically everything that we run

at Sam Sales is called if this, then that.

Right.

We build a model just to build
that process and that muscle.

So if you book a meeting with someone,
then you connect with them on LinkedIn.

If they invite other people to
the meeting, then you connect

on LinkedIn before the meeting.

Yeah.

The beauty of that, right, with our
context is just like you said, They

get to see our content, but even if
they don't, they get to look at our

profile, our history, our experience.

We're working for who we have in common,
and we can build credibility in advance.

And that is, by the way, a huge
key of that discovery call.

If I show up, and I don't know who
that person knows that we have in

common or where they've worked,
I've done myself a disservice.

And I'll tell you, there is one time
where I haven't done it, and the

one time I didn't do it, the person
got on the phone and said, you know,

I used to work for on 24, right?

Which is my previous
employer of six years, and I.

Nope, because I did not do my homework.

I was back to back to back.

Didn't do my, show me, you know, me,
it's happened and I was mortified.

So, yeah.

Um, always do it.

Cause the one time you don't it's gonna

Luigi Prestinenzi: bite you
in the, but yeah, that's, you

know what, that's great advice.

You know, I love that.

If this, then that.

I love that structure so.

Hey, Sam, for me, this has been
an awesome, I've, I've literally

got a page of notes here.

Oh, I've got a couple of posts that
I think I'm gonna connect following

this . Um, yeah, . But before we
let you go, where is the best place?

I know you've mentioned LinkedIn.

Is that the best place for them
to find you and connect with you?

Our listeners?

Yeah.

Sam Mckenna: Come say hello there.

Um, our website's great
Sam sales consulting.com.

Sign up for our newsletter.

We can pack a good punch every week.

Um, you can find all of our events, our
women's group, all that stuff right on

Luigi Prestinenzi: our website.

Yeah.

Awesome.

And full disclosure to listeners
is I have already bought.

Um, Sam's Discovery Masterclass.

It's great.

Um, I might even put that in the show
notes so that you can get access to

that, um, and, and go on there by it.

Um, but look, Sam, I just wanna say
thanks for the contribution you make.

I love your content.

Um, and our listeners, once you
connect with Sam, you'll love it.

Um, Sam posts daily content, it's awesome.

So thanks for helping our
sales profession, trying

to be the best they can be.

Sam Mckenna: Rebecca,
thanks for having me.

Great to be here.